15241

MR. CACHALIA

Town. Now, l i v i n g i n Kliptown, did that

i n any way af-

fect the cost of l i v i n g ? — That increased the cost of living very much, my l o r d s , because the bus fares to Town were increased and the people had to pay a higher

fare,

and the e f f e c t of a large number of people moving to KLiptown was that rates were immediatelyincreased;

people i n

fact were paying higher rents there than they had been paying in Town. Now would you say that since

about 1947 the town-

ship of Kliptown had grown into a large area with a settled Coloured p o p u l a t i o n ? — That is V/as period,

so.

there any growth of social

sanitation

amenities

i n that

e t c ? — To a certain e x t e n t , y e s ;

prior

to this there wee no l a i d on w a t e r , there was no proper s a n i t a t i o n , and no s o c i a l f a c i l i t i e s ; small, it was in a Church b u i l d i n g , but

the school was very the Peri-Urban

Areas Health Board took over and l a i d on water a id arrangements were made, built

sanitary

and a few years l a t e r a school was

there. Now, has the security of the people in Kliptown

i n any way been disturbed i n recent y e a r s ? — Y e s , my l o r d s , it has seriously been affected by the Group Areas Act.

The people had bought properties and put up homes

and although Kliptown has only recently been declared a European

area, When was t h a t ? — That was in 1956 or 1 9 5 7 . RUMPFF J ;

I s that the whole of

Kliptown?—

Y e s , the whole of Kliptown, b u t , my l o r d s , before a place is

declared to any group it takes a number of

MR. CACHALIA

15242

years w h i l e the investigations are going on, and I would say since round about 1951 people were not prepared to improve their b u i l d i n g s ; building,

there was no b u i l d i n g ,

going on, even though there was

new

over-crowding,

for fear of the declaration of group a r e a s . MR. KATHRADA: general conditions

What would you say were the

of people i n Kliptown as compared to

the conditions of the Coloured people l i v i n g W e l l , my l o r d s ,

i n Town?

it was generally the very poor people who

were f i r s t forced out of the buildings because even i n Town they lived i n the older b u i l d i n g s ,

and the

of the people i n Kliptown were those of

poverty.

D i d you become concerned about

the

conditiohs

conditions

of the p e o p l e ? — My l o r d s , as I grew older, even before we moved to Kliptown,

I had become concerned about the

poverty

amongst the Coloured people, a n d it seemed to me more so i n Kliptown. Were you concerned i n any way about the condit i o n of the young people?— Yes, e s p e c i a l l y the parents l e f t very

my l o r d s ,

i n Kliptown

early in the morning, and

only arrived home late at n i g h t , which meant that most of the time the c h i l d r e n were on t h e i r own and a s at that time there was very limited school accommodation - and those children who had completed t h e i r S t d . V ,

I think the

school went to at that time, t h e y had nothing to do because t h e i r parents could not send them to school

in

Town- - they couldn't a f f o r d the t r a i n fares to Town, D i d you then try to do something to a l l e v i a t e the p o s i t i o n ,

to remedy the p o s i t i o n ? — Y e s ,

my l o r d s ,

established a Youth C e n t r e , or a Youth Club I should

I

say,

»

1524*5 J

MR. CACHALIA

and I hoped that we could get the support of the Coloured people who could afford i t , to run this Club for t h e youth who had nothing to

do.

What sort of a c t i v i t i e s e l u b ? — W e had various foster a s p i r i t

did you have at this

a c t i v i t i e s w h i c h were designed to

of s e l f reliance on the youth,

try and keep them away from standing on street

and to corners

and gambling, and to sort of try and bring these people to l i v e a more u s e f u l

life.

That was round about

.

. ? — That was round about

1950 - 1 9 5 1 . Now, would you say that you succeeded i n the mission that you had set y o u r s e l f ? — W e l l , say s o , because I don't

I

couldn't

think that I gave i t s u f f i c i e n t - -

r a t h e r , the club did not run for a s u f f i c i e n t l y long period. Now w h i l e you were running this

c l u b , did you

approach any a s s o c i a t i o n or body with a view to s e t t i n g up a Community Centre i n K l i p t c w n ? — Y e s , gether w i t h the Priest

my l o r d s ,

to-

of our church we approached the

National Health Foundation who told us that

as sympathetic

as they may be KLiptown was out of the Municipal

area

and they already had too many commitments, and they could not see t h e i r way c l e a r to assisting

us.

By the way, what church do you belong t o ? — To the Anglican Church* At aboutthis time was a grant offered to you to s t u d y S o c i a l W e l f a r e ? — At the same time I made an application for a grant to enable me to study S o c i a l Welfare at the Jan Hofmeyr School of S o c i a l

Work.

15244

MR. CACHADIA

D i d you take up this w o r k ? — No, my l o r d s . Why n o t ? — I began to wonder i f it was the correct thing to do "because f i r s t

of a l l it would have meant

that I would not be earning f o r a period of about three y e a r s , and that would mean that my family would not get my assistance,

and secondly,

I began to doubt whether

that would r e a l l y in any way improve the conditions

of

our people, because 1 came to r e a l i s e more and more that s o c i a l work could only be a p a l l i a t i v e . KENNEDY J ;

The grant was made to y o u , was

it?—

The grant was made to me, my l o r d . MR. KilTHRADAi

Now w h i l e you were running your

Youth Club in Kliptown did you have any contact with the Transvaal Association of Boys C l u b , Boys and G i r l s Y e s , my l o r d s , we were in contact with t h i s

Club?-

Association,

because it was doing the same work in other centres

of

Johannesburg o Did you attend any of its meetings

and functions

? — I attended quite a number of t h e i r meetings,

lectures

and f u n c t i o n s . What

sort of lectures

and discussions

did you

have at the Boys C l u b ? — We used to get various to come and discuss various s u b j e c t s ; discussed s o c i a l welfare and drama, subjects - and various

sometimes

people they

and a l l sorts of

people used to come, or asked to

be allowed to address the group. At

this time did you belong to any

political

o r g a n i s a t i o n ? — N o , my l o r d s . Would you say that you had any f i x e d ideas? —

I had no p o l i t i c a l ideas at this

political

time.

MR, CACHALIA

15245

D i d you have any association with any leaders of p o l i t i c a l organisations?

At that t i m e ? — I had met

various people, my l o r d s .

I met former leaders of the

A f r i c a n Peoples O r g a n i s a t i o n s , a group of people who were then leaders of the Kleurlingsvolksbond,

and during

the time that I was w i t h the Transvaal A s s o c i a t i o n Youth Club we had been addressed by members of the moral

Re-

armament Group. Nov; what is the Kleurlingsvolksbond?— My l o r d s , that was and s t i l l is a Coloured Organisation based on the l i n e s of the Nationalist Party which t r i e s to persuade the Coloured people to accept A p a r t h e i d , and also to accept Afrikaans as the only language for Coloured people; f a c t , a l e a d e r who was s t i l l Principal

of a

school

in in

Johannesburg i n s i s t e d that no E n g l i s h be used by any of its pupils,

even though the school he was i n was i n a pre-

dominantly English speaking

area.

The leaders

frequent-

l y came to Pretoria to see members of the Cabinet -

- as

they said they saw members of the Cabinet - - and

leading

members of the Nationalist P a r t y , and they accepted

group

areas and claimed that

it was only in that way that the

Coloured people could improve themselves,

and only i n

accepted group areas where they would have no competition with any other races could they e s t a b l i s h t h e i r own b u s i n e s s e s , a n d generally run t h e i r own a f f a i r s . You said you came into contact with members of the Moral Re-armament Movement, at the Association of the Boys C l u b ? —

Yes,

Now you also mentioned that you came into touch w i t h leaders of the A f r i c a n peoples o r g a n i s a t i o n ? — is

so.

That

15246 MR. LOLLAN

What is t h a t ? — At that tine the African Peoples Organisation was not functioning

but I learnt a lot of

the history of the A.P«0 from these people, t h a t it had been a Coloured Peoples

Organisation*

Did you at this time begin to read literature published by this organisation,

or relating to the

activities

of this organisation?— That is s o . What sort of l i t e r a t u r e ? — W e l l ,

I read a l l sorts

of literature - anything I could get hold of that gave me some information about these organisations, and generally I took more interest

10

in p o l i t i c s .

Now I want to hand to you Exhibit S . L . l l ,

which

was found in your possession on the 27th September, It is

a 'Liberation'

of August, 1953>

1955.

Is this one of the

publications you bought at that time?— That is

so,my lords. 15

Was there any particular reason, Mr. L o l l a n , why you bought this copy of the first Goli"

'Liberation'?—

Yes, my l o r d s ,

in

place there was a book review on the "Return to

( ? ) which was written by a coloured a u t h o r , ,

Peter

Abrahams; there was an article on Moral Rearmament and a small a r t i c l e at the back on Peter Abrahams

.

. no 9

20

that

is the book review, my l o r d s . I want to refer to page 6 of S . L . l l where there is an a r t i c l e M . R . A „ Weapon of the Cold War by Dan Thlume

(?).

Have you got i t ? — I ' v e got i t , my l o r d s . Would you read that article M r . MR. HOSXTER; ticular

25

My l o r d s , I don't think this par-

' L i b e r a t i o n ' v/as read RUMPFF J ;

Lollan.

in.

This was not read in?

Ml . HOEXTEP.s

No, my l o r d .

30

15247

RUMPPF J ;

MR. LOLLAN

What is that a r t i c l e about?

MR. KATHRADA%

It is headed M . R . A . Weapon of

the Cold War, my lord c RUMPFF J ;

With reference to moral

MR. KATHRADA; RUMPFF J ;

rearmament?

T h a t ' s r i g h t , my l o r d .

Why do you want the whole article

MR. KATHRADA;

My l o r d ,

in?

I want him ID refer to

this publication and s i m i l a r publications because I believe that the s t a t e of mind of the accused is at in this case|

I wanted to ask him further questions on

this moral rearmament movement, my l o r d . reason why I want this in . RUMPFF J ; whole a r t i c l e

issue

That is the

..

Yes, but is it necessary to have the

in?

MR. KATHRADA; RUMPFF J;

I submit it i s , my l o r d .

But why?

MR. KATHRADA;

To a s s i s t the w i t n e s s ,

my l o r d s ,

to answer my questions, and a l s o for the b e n e f i t of the rest of the accused c RUMPFF Jt

Are they interested

in the moral re-

armament? MR. KATHRADA; RUMPFF J° selves.

They a r e , my l o r d .

W e l l , they can read it for them-

Beca lse :: f there is one a r t i c l e you can have

a l l possible l i t e r a t u r e about moral rearmament. MR. KATHRADA; article

I want

W e l l , my l o r d ,

t h i s is the

only

the witness to read on moral rearmament.

RUMPFF Js

How long i s

MR. KATHRADA;

it?

About two pages, my l o r d ? —

It

is three pages, my l o r d . RUMPFF J ;

Well,

cannot we hear the g i s t

of i t ?

15248

MR. Kfi.THRADA;

MR. LOLIAN

W e l l , my lord

is it

possible

for y o u , M r . L o l l a n , to summarise that a r t i c l e ? — No, could not summarise t h i s RUMPFF J ;

I

document, my l o r d s ,

By whom is the article written?

MR. KATHRADA;

By a co-conspirator, my l o r d . 5

An alleged co-conspirator, Dan Thlume. RUMPFF J ; about the moral

How is this relevant, what he w r i t e s

rearmament?

MR. KATHRADAs RUMPFF J;

My lords

. . . .

Or what anybody writes about the

moral rearmament, for that matter.

10

The witness can t e l l

us hiw own views about moral rearmament, but whatever anybody writer about the moral

rearmament i s completely ir-

relevant. MR. KATHRADA: period

i n the w i t n e s s '

in politics;

My l o r d s , we are dealing with a l i f e when he was not

when he was exposed to various

one of which was mora], rearmament . RUMPFF J ; views

Yes;

interested influences,

,

w e l l , he can t e l l us what h i s

are on moral, rearmament, but what anybody writes

about moral rearmament is r e a l l y BEKKER J ;

15

20

irrelevant.

Is the purpose of wanting to read

this document to find out from the witness whether he subscribed to those views or not? MR. KATHRADA;

Y e s , my l o r d .

I wanted to

him how he was influenced by that particular

ask

25

article,

my l o r d . BBKKEI

J;

RUMPFF J :

Yes, w e l l ,

that you can put to him.

You want to ask him whether he was

influencedin any way by having read that M . R . A . Weapon of the Cold War.

article

on

30

MR.

15249

MR. KATHRADA; RUMPFF J;

As your l o r d s h i p

That you can do;

LOL&N

pleases*

you may do t h a t .

But why i s i t necessary for us to l i s t e n to the whole article?

We are not interested i n what anybody says

about the moral rearmament. case. nity;

I t ' s not an issue i n this

Assume that he had become converted to Christiaassume f o r argument's

Christian before read the B i b l e ,

sake that he was not

a

and lie had become converted because he then on the same basis you could ask him

to read the Bible

to u s ,

MR. KATHRADA:

My l o r d , but the Moral Rearmament

Movement does claim to o f f e r some s o l u t i o n RUME-PF J :

That may b e ;

affect that had on him;

...

you can ask him what

how he saw i t ,

and he may refresh

his memory by looking at the a r t i c l e , but on the analogy that I quoted to you we are really not i n t e r e s t e d , where w i l l i t s t o p ?

He may have a whole book, he may

have had a book on Rearmament, Moral Rearmament possession,

because

in his

and thevfcole book might have influenced him

- - why should wo l i s t e n to the book? MR„ JCATHRADA;

My l o r d s ,

before Court found i n his RDMPPP_ J :

RUMPFF J ; .

possession.

And l a i d against him, my l o r d ,

Well,

I ' m not certain whether this

.

MR. KATHRADA; RUIFFF J :

N o , my l o r d 0

The case against him on t h i s

i s that he wfs i n possession only of you are perfectly

is a document

Yes.

MR. KATHRADA.:

has been read in

this

'Liberation';

entitled to lead your w i t n e s s ,

lead him to show why he bought i t ,

issue now

or to

The Crown does not

15250

r e l y on the contents L o l l a n i n any way;

of this particular issue only the fact that he had

MR. KATHRALA; RUMFFRJ;

MR. LOLLAN

against possession.

I appreciate t h a t , my l o r d .

Now as I say, you are perfectly

at

l i b e r t y to ask him to explain why he had this copy i n his

possession;

now he says there

on Moral Rearmament,

is an a r t i c l e i n

on Abrahams, a r e v i e w ,

it

and so on.

Now you can ask him whether a r t i c l e on Moral Rearmament had any influence on him and why?

He can look at the

a r t i c l e , but once we allow an a r t i c l e l i k e that to go i n i n i t s entirety then there w i l l be no limit to any a r t i c l e w h i c h may

have influenced him on any aspect of his

going i n and being r e a d ? —

(MR. LOLLAN):

My l o r d s ,

life I

don't know - - as I ' m also giving evidence on my own behalf;

this

'Liberation'

Violent Schedule g a i n s t RTJMTFF J :

is,

I t h i n k , quoted i n the

me.

Against y o u ? — I ' m not q u i t e s u r e ,

but I think that is s o , my l o r d . I don:t

MR. KATHR/LA: RIMPffff Cj not been read

think it i s , my l o r d ,

M r . Hoexter says the contents have

in.

MR. HOBXT3R: a s c e r t a i n , my l o r d s ;

So I'll

far as I have been able to have a further search made.

I looked and I came across this document as being

in

a c c u s e d ' s possession „ . RTJMTFF J t

I s there anything else in

that,

L o l l a n , that could perhaps be linked with any suggestion of v i o l e n c e ? — My l o r d s , "The War that R a i l e d 0

there is an a r t i c l e

- i t seems to be on Korea

on 0

.

W e l l , you may wish to deal w i t h some of the

.

15251

MR. LOLLAN

other things l a t e r that may be linked with

violence?—Yes,

my l o r d s . But at the moment I think you ought to confine the w i t n e s s , Mr. Kathrada, to refreshing his memory on the article. MR. HOEXTER; ness.

My l o r d s ,

i f I may assist the wit-

There i s a b r i e f portion of this a r t i c l e , the one

which is proposed to be read - - it deals with the r e l a t i o n s h i p between classes in society - - it may be that that is the one to which the w i t n e s s r e f e r r e d ;

that does not

deal w i t h the Moral Rearmament Movement as a Movement; it may be that that has some bearing on what the witness 1s •

•• RUMPFF J ;

Is this i n the M . R . A ?

MB. HOEXTERi

Y e s , my l o r d ;

it i s n ' t

an article

which deals simply and solely with the M . R . A as a Religious Movement,

It

sees it

r e l a t i o n s h i p between RUMPFF Jt i f that is sor

i n the context of s o c i e t y ,

and the

classes„ Well,

then, y o u ' d b e t t e r read

it,

Yes?

MR. KATHRADA;

W i l l you r^ad that

article,

Mr. G-ollan?— "Recently we have become aware of a new movement which aims to attract A f r i c a n s .

It invites them

f o r free v i s i t s to conferences i n R h o d e s i a . . . " brackets paid).

(Passports f i x e d without question; "•..«

even to S w i t z e r l a n d ,

in

all

(again all

expenses

paid including luxury accommodation in a f i r s t hotel).

Some A f r i c a n leaders accept these

without thinking very much about i t . harmless,

expenses

class

invitations

The movement seems

of a vaguely r e l i g i o u s character;

it

calls

30

15252

i t s e l f "Moral Rearmament".

MR. G O L L M

It

claims to be based on the

p r i n c i p l e s of absolute honesty, p u r i t y , and l o v e . leaders.

Smooth spoken < , . * . . .

unselfishness

come to see these African

They f l a t t e r them w i t h a show of respect and

consideration. The rewards

It sounds also attractive and harmless.

are tempting. Fortunately most of our non-

European leaders have cion against

developed a sharp sense of suspi-

innocent seeming advances of this

They want to know what i t is a l l about. ever, are not so v i g i l a n t ; to Lusaka i n Rhodesia,

type.

One or t w o , how-

t h e y accept invitations

and Caux i n S w i t z e r l a n d .

They

send f u l l birthday greetings to the M . R . A Feuhrer, Frank Buchman;

Dr.

t h e y f a i l to ask the the key question:

'What is the M c R r A ? '

What i s its background, how i s it

organised and f i n a n c e d , what are its real aims? Background:

too

The

I n the 1 9 3 0 f s there emerged in B r i t a i n a

movement known as The Oxford Group led by an American D r . Frank Buchman-

While i t claimed to be

religious

i n character it showed a marked p o l i t i c a l b i a s . known p o l i t i c a l feature for German Nazism.

at

It's

ran i t s sympathy

In 1936 D r . Burhman paid a v i s i t

to

Germany and met Himmler who w a s , of course, the head of the Gestapo responsible during h i s career for the

slaughter

and torture of millions of innocent people i n concentration camps.

According to the German steel millionaire

F r i t z Tyson ( ? ) - I quote from h i s book " I played Himmler was a c t u a l l y a member of the Oxford Group. gew weeks l a t e r a f t e r his made the following

A

return from Nazi Germany he

declaration:

" I thank Heaven for a

man l i k e Adolf H i t t l e r . He b u i l t a frontline against the anti-Christ

Hitler'

of Communism.

of d efence

'New York Telegram

15253

August 22nd, 1 9 3 6 . '

MR. G-OLLAN

When War broke out a g a i n s t Germany-

leading members of Buchman'sorganisation went to America to carry out a campaign for American n e u t r a l i t y . said t h a t

the

role of the U . S . A .

•Moral Rearmament ! .

They

should be l i m i t e d to

This was made the main slogan of

the Movement, ana from then on the Oxford Group changed its name to that of Moral Rearmament.

By A p r i l

1941

H i t l e r had already overrun Europe and the pro-Nazi had become impossible, Germany.

M.R.A,

for Buchman to put across

p u b l i c a t i o n , however,

ment Groupi

said

outside

continued to be

published i n German under the Nazi regime. Herbert, Conservative M „ P .

line

S i r Alan

about the Moral Rearma-

' I know what I am up against with this vast

wealthy and ruthless organisation?

the

technique of the Oxford Group Co* L t d . , sadly similar to

that of the N a z i s ' .

language and is s t r i k i n g l y and

In January,

1943,

the American Drafts Appeal Board, a body set up to applications

for exemption from m i l i t a r y

service,

appeals from the M„R,A., members, saying such

consider rejected

declarations

•by D r . Buchman seem to us to be expressing the aims and philosophy of the

Axis Powers.

M . R » A . leaders

from

foreign countries act as agencies of the American

Intelle-

gence S e r v i c e ;

M.RCA.

delegates attending international

conferences i n America hold

' I n t e r n a t i o n a l Security Con-

ferences with representatives State Department.

of the U 0 S . Congress and

General L . D . C l a y , t h e American Mili-

tary Commander i n Germany, helped to pick 150 German leaders to attend the M . R . A . meeting in Choux i n 1947? and i n 1950

the Japanese M 0 R » A .

Europe and America General McArthur'o

delegation came to

'with the support and approval

of

Quotation from Congressional Record

MR. LOLIAN

15254

July 2 4 t h , 1 9 5 0 .

Humble g r a t i t u d e .

The leaders

of t h i s

Japanese Delegation were received by the U . S . Congress and t h e i r spokesman said

'We r e a l i s e that the precious blood

of the sons of America is now being shed to protect the freedom of the world and the Far E a s t , and i f we might be permitted as Jaranese to bo?/ our heads in deepest and humble gratitude and appreciation for this great the United States is making, and privilege

for u s ' .

sacrifice

it w i l l indeed be an honour

I f such servile l i p s p i t t l i n g

is

required of non-white M „ R . A . members African leaders may w e l l think twice i f i t is not too high a price to pay for a free holiday abroad. Britain M.R.A.

Both i n the United States and

is supported by the most reactionary and

Fascist sections of the ruling Harry

in

class.

Henry Ford and

Truman have backed this out f i t for many years;

i n B r i t a i n Lord N u f f i e l d Courthope Lord...(?)..

- the Morris motor car King -

President of the National Union of Conserva-

tive and Unionist A s s o c i a t i o n , the Landowners A s s o c i a t i o n , and top capitalists

and former President

of

and many other Tory leaders

are among the M c R . A . b a c k e r s .

l i s t of the movement's chief supporters i n other

A countries

sounds l i k e a r e g i s t e r of the worst enemies of the working class throughout

the world,,

clique back the M . R . A .

It's

Chiang-Kai-Shek and his Formosa Japanese supporters

include

Hishito Ichimado, the director of the Bank of Japan, and other leaders of Japanese industry who gave t h e i r support to Japanese aggression i n A s i a .

full

Other Japanese

supporters include America's puppet premier of Japan, Yoshida, and the c h i e f s of the Police in Tokyo and Osako. The biggest monopoly in I n d i a ,

the Tartar

Industries,

MR. LOLLAN

15255

Its

chairman, Shri J . R . D .

M . R . A . man. he quotes

Tata M . R . A . Sigman-Rhee is an

Karl Ademann, West Germany Chancellor

'The Butcher of Bonn'

—

is a n M . R . A .

man.

Robert Schumann, former French Prime M i n i s t e r , who was picked out by the French Parliament because they could not stomach his plan for a new Nazi Army

in Germany, and

German control of French Coal and Steel resources i s an M . R . A . man.

What sore of company is t h i s

f o r Africans

who claim to be interested i n the emancipation of t h e i r people.

I t i s only recently that M . R . A .

has been trying

to penetrate among non-European leaders in this but it has for some time been seeking Europeans.

support among the

Where did it get this support?

expect f r o m the sort of International

country#

Aswe should

connections

described

above, the Bachmanite source, and it found a ready response among b i g business

circles in the U n i o n , and in the f i r s t

place from the h i s t o r i c enemy of the workers and oppressed people of South A f r i c a , nate our country e

the big mining interests who domi-

The Chamber of Mines which undertook

the cost of sending a delegation of i t s

own representatives

to Choux reports that there is a hundred percent r e l a t i o n s h i p between i t s e l f and the men. White Miners U n i o n ' , Personalities

change i n

He quotes

- As a result of M „ R . A .

influence.

such as Mr* Paul "Visser, President

of the

Union and Mr. R 0 P „ Erasmus declare that they have a new way whereby disputes can be settled amicably the l i g h t of the M . R . A . 1951'.

ideology.

'The

found in

'The S t a r , 23rd April

Nationalist Members of Parliament and the leaders

of the N a t i o n a l i s t

dominated South A f r i c a n Mineworkers

Union availed themselves of the i n v i t a t i o n to holidays in Switzerland.

Mr. P . F . E l l i s ,

former Secretary cf

the

15256

ME. LOLLAN

Mlneworkers Union was also connected w i t h the Movement for Moral Rearmament,

1

although his devotion to the prin-

ciples of absolute honesty, be somewhat questionable.

purity e t c . , would appear to To sum up, Moral Rearmament is

not as it pretends to b e , a quasi-religious body restricted 5 to preaching the highsounding moral p l a t i t u d e s ; enormously wealthy international

i t is an

conspiracy devoted to

undermining movements of the workers and oppressed fop emancipation in a l l country.

I t ' s message of

people collabo*

retion between worte rs and employers - between oppressors

10

and the oppressed - turns out to be a formulae for getting the oppressed to submit to their fate without By allowing a few leaders to sit

struggle.

down s o c i a l l y w i t h t h e i r

masters they hope to emasculate

the Trade Unions and

National L i b e r a t i o n Movements.

They w i l l not

i n these o b j e c t i v e s .

succeed

The great majority of Trade Union-

i s t s and d emocratic leaders w i l l refuse to be by the s o f t soap of the Buchmanites. M . R . A members are not allowed Movement

15

sidetracked

They w i l l ask why

to elect

officials

of the

and why its finances are such a closely guarded

secret from the members themselves.

They w i l l

20

ask why

M . R . A , has no answers to any of the problems of poverty, misery and unemployment and w a r , but r e s t r i c t s to a c t i n g as a weapon in American capitalism against so called Communism.

They w i l l

itself

. . . c o l d war

reject the M . R . A .

25

with contempt, just as they rejected the Bantu National Congress of M r . Bhengy, the so-called Non-European Unity Movement

and a l l other agencies of the r u l i n g RUMPFF J;

my l o r d s .

class.

Is that the end of the a r t i c l e ? - Y e s ,

30

15257

MR. KATHRADA;

MR. GOLLAN

Were you i n any way influenced by

t h i s a r t i c l e , M r . Gollan?-- W e l l ,

to the extent

started to examine the Moral Rearmament more

that

I

critically.

Did you j o i n the Moral Rearmament G r o u p ? — No. What was your view then on the p o s s i b i l i t y of a 5 spontaneous

change of heart

by those who oppress

With t h e information I had at my disposal Rearmament

us?—

about the Moral

and having read what many prominent

people

in

South Africa s a i d at meetings of the Moral Rearmament and what they say when they come back to South Africa t -

10

I came to s e r i o u s l y doubt » and i n fact I rejected the idea of a spontaneous change of heart amongst Did you, Mr. G o l l a n , j o i n the

people,

Kleuj&ingsvolksbond

? — No,, my l o r d s . Why n o t ? — I rejected the idea because I one could not solve the problems of the Coloured

felt

15

people

by discussing them with the Government on their own terms.

I knew that the Coloured people are opposed to

apartheid and that i t would not a s s i s t them to gosk them to accept Apartheid and only then to

first discuss

20

t h e i r problems with the Government. Had you at t h i s time heard of a Defiance Camp a i g n ? — I had heard about

the Defiance

Campaign.

Were you i n any way influenced by this camp a i g n ? — I w a s , my l o r d s , because i t was the f i r s t that I saw i n practice non-Europeans working I had attended a few of

time

25

together;

the meetings and I had heard

speakers of various r a c i a l groups

—

in fact I had

heard Hatty du P r e e z , a prominent Coloured Trade Unionist and James P h i l l i p s ,

also addressing these meetings, and

30

MR. G OIL AN

15258

I thought that that would be the only way, i f of South A f r i c a

the peoples

could work together, to solve these prob-

lems • D i d you have any ideas about the necessity

for

an organisation of Coloured p e o p l e ? — I t was shortly the Defiance Campaign, my l o r d s ,

after

and there was no real

organisation - a National organisation,

to which the Colour-

ed people could b e l o n g . Were you among the KENNEDY J°.

. . . .

That what?

What follows on t h e r e ? —

My ideas were that the Coloured people should j o i n an organisation that would work together with the other non» white races i n South A f r i c a , my l o r d , peans , as I saw during the Defiance

and w i t h the Euro-*

campaign, and there

was no organisation that really could f u l f i l MR. K A T H R A D A D i d

this

function,

the A f r i c a n p e o p l e ' s

organisa-

t i o n not e x i s t at this t i m e ? — I t time,

did not exist at that

no. Were you among the founders of the South African

Coloured Peoples Organisation in the T r a n s v a a l ? — I w a s , my l o r d s . When was t h a t ? — I n March,

1954.

Was that the f i r s t time that you joined p o l i t i c a l o r g a n i s a t i o n ? — That is

a

s o , my l o r d s .

Now, before t h i s had the South A f i c a n

Coloured

Peoples Organisation been formed i n Cape Town a l r e a d y ? — The South A f r i c a n Coloured Peoples Organisation was formed i n Cape Town i n September,

1953,

Mr. L o l l a n , prior to the formation of the South African Coloured Peoples Organisation in the Cape, was

ME. LOLLAN

15259

there a National Convention called as a result of the declaration signed by certain Coloured l e a d e r s ? —

That

is s o , my l o r d s . I want to refer you to 0 . 1 1 2 2 which is of "Advance"

of 13th August, 1 9 5 3 .

a copy

On the front page

- i s there an a r t i c l e which purports to be the Declaration signed by the Coloured

leaders?

MR. HOEXTER% record at page 3 5 6 7 , there dealt w i t h ;

My l o r d s ,

this was read into

or r a t h e r the relevant "Advance" was

I ' m not sure whether this

particular

Declaration was read i n - - but that is the issue MR. KATHRADA;

My l o r d s ,

Clarion C a l l " ? —

Well, there's

concerned.

to the best of my know-

ledge t h i s particular article was not read RUMPFF J ;

the

in.

something

called "The

That is the E d i t o r i a l , my l o r d .

Is that the E d i t o r i a l ? — Y e s , my l o r d . It's

not the D e c l a r a t i o n ? — No, my l o r d .

Then t h e r e ' s

a h i s t o r i c a l speech by Mr.

Malinckoff

? — That is an a r t i c l e that appears h e r e , my l o r d . KENNEDY Js

You want the Declaration read

W . KATHRADA: RUMPFF J ;

in?

Just the D e c l a r a t i o n , my l o r d .

20

Y e s , very w e l l ,

MR. KATHKADA;

W i l l you please read

the Decla-

*

r a t i o n , Mr. L o l l a n ? — " T h i s Declaration is contained an appeal addressed to the Secretary, O f f i c i a l s bers

in

and Mem-

25

of a l l Coloured Organisation to attend a Peoples

Convention to be held at the Batswood College

Hall,

Gosper Road, Wynberg, at 3 p.m 0 on Saturday August

15th.

You w i l l also note that arrangements have been made by certain persons to interview the Prime M i n i s t e r on this matter"

- continues the i n v i t a t i o n -

"It

is

clear that

30

MR. GOHLAN

15260

this move holds grave dangers for the Coloured as those persons who w i l l

people,

interview the Prime Minister

have by no means got the backing of the Coloured have not consulted them and cannot t herefore speak for them®

people;

claim to

At the same time there does not seen

be any other body which is competent

to

to speak for the

Colouredpeople and prepared to take the lead in these c r i t i c a l times.

This being so a group of Coloured men

connected with established we cannot allow

organisations has

decided that

the present B i l l to come before the Joint

Session of Parliament on August 19th without t h e voice the Coloured people having been h e a r d . this notice is so l a t e , but t h i s

of

We regret that

i s an emergency

, and

we ask your Organisation to meet as soon as possible so as to make the necessary arrangements and send one or two delegates at least to this Peoples Convention;

also

as we do not have a complete r e g i s t e r of Coloured Organ i s a t i o n s w i l l you please take this message to any other group of which you may know. needed„

No o f f i c i a l i n v i t a t i o n is

This i s a Peoples Convention and we hope that

the people w i l l be h e a r d .

come forward and l e t

I f i t is quite impossible

their true

to send a delegate

please send a l e t t e r or telegram i n support. is signed by D r . R 0 E „ van der Ross

feelings

(?),

The appeal

the E d i t o r of

the Teachers Educational and Professional

Association

J o u r n a l , and amongst the sponsors are Mr.E.F„Bauman, the President of

Mr. G-. Fletcher and Mr.

E . A . D e a n , Chairman and Secretary respectively of the Cape Furniture Workers U n i o n , a n d M r . H . Agross and M r . A l b e r t u s , Progressive

(?)

Chairman and Secretary of the Moslem

Society,"

MR. LOLLAN

15261

I n the same a r t i c l e ? M r . L o l l a n ,

is there a

comment by D r . v . d . R o s s ? — Commenting on the fact no lead had been given by existing Coloured

that

Political

Organisation on the question of the v o t e , D r . v . d . Ross said?

'There is a deeply felt need amongst the Coloured

people for something constructive to appear on the polit i c a l scene .

The people are looking hungrily for an orga-

n i s a t i o n where their voice can be heard.

They

feel

strongly about the issae of the v o t e , but t h e e x i s t i n g p o l i t i c a l groups are dominated by a few highly

educative

individuals who are so far above the ordinary person that they have lost touch with

their p e o p l e .

offers a chance for l a y i n g

The Convention

the b a s i s of an honest and

sincere attempt to make the Coloured person r e a l i s e the part he p l a y s .

We want response from the ordinary working

people such as thosd who took part i n the recent

campaign

organised by Trade Unions and the Housewives League RUMPFF J ;

How long i s that going to

"

continue?--

That is the end of i t , my l o r d . MR. KATHRADA;

Mr, Lollan,

do you know D r . v . d ,

R o s s ? — I do, my l o r d s . Who i s h e ? — Br c, v . d . Ross is P r i n c i p a l Batswood Training

of the

College,,

Where is t h a t ? — I t i s i n Wynberg, Cape,

and

he i s an eminent educationalist amongst the Coloured people. I s he a Communist? -- N o . I want to refer you to Gra1122 which is another copy of "Advance"

of 20th A u g u s t , , 1 9 5 3 .

Now, on page 1

there is an a r t i c l e headed "Firm stand by the Coloured

MR.

15262

People" which purports to be a report of that

LOLLM

Convention?—

That i s s o , ray l o r d s . My l o r d s ,

other aspects from this copy of "Advance"

wete read i n at page 3 5 7 1 ;

this p a r t i c u l a r a r t i c l e was not

read i n , ray l o r d s , RUMPPPJ;

Yes;

MR. KATHRADA:

by whom was it w r i t t e n ? I t ' s an a r t i c l e appearing

in

"Advance" which purports to be a report of the Convention my l o r d .

. RTJMPFF J :

Yes.

MR. KATHRADA: Lollan

.

Would you read that report, Mr.

.. RTJMPFF J :

Why must we have thewhole

Is there not a conclusion arrived a t , is material for your purpose, MR. KATHRADA:

purpose?

W e l l , my l o r d , I wanted the repre.

.

.

Why?

MR. KATHRADA:

My l o r d s ,

background of the formation o f t h e RUMPFF J : tion;

or something that

or for M r . L o l l a n ' s

sentation at the Convention i t s e l f RUMPFF J :

report?

I ' m trying to show the organisation.

Y e s , we have evidence of the Conven-

were resolutions MR. KATHRADA:

taken? Resolutions were taken at the

Convention, my l o r d . RTJMPFF J :

Do they appear there?

MR. KATHRADA: that I t h i n k , my l o r d ;

The first paragraph w i l l

clarify

then I wanted the portion under

"Franchise". RUMPFF J :

May I have a look at that?

This is

the background of the Coloured Peoples A s s o c i a t i o n , MR. KATHRADA:

Y e s , my l o r d .

is

it?

15263

RUMPFF J ; Mr.

MR. LOLLAN

Y e s , you had better read this

in,

Lollan.

(COURT ADJOURNED FOR 15 MINUTES)

ON THE COURT RESUMING- %

MR. KATHRADA;

I think you were about to read

from page 1 of the "Advance" l o l l a n ? — Y e s , my l o r d s . tions

of 20th August, 1 9 5 3 ,

"Delegates

Mr.

from 33 organisa-

present......" KENNEDY J ;

by Coloured P e o p l e " ,

What is the h e a d i n g ? — "Firm Stand my l o r d s ;

booed at Peoples C o n v e n t i o n ' . nisations

present a t

sub-heading "Delegates

'Golding

from 33 orga-

the Peoples Convention last Sunday

decided unanimously to form a National Organisation to act as

the mouthpiece of the Coloured People i n a l l

matters a f f e c t i n g them.

Speakers supporting the move

stressed the fact that once established the

organisation

would co-opcrate w i t h the A f r i c a n and Indian

Organisa-

t i o n s already striving for equality i n South A f r i c a e A committee of ten was appointed to draft a

constitution

and report back before the joint s i t t i n g

of Parliament

on 16th September,

deliberations

I n the course of the

which l a s t e d nearly s i x hours, the extreme right wing element i n the Coloured community as represented by M r . George G o l d i n g , the C , P . N . U , feat. "

suffered a decisive de-

CUP. N 0 U . my l o r d s , stands for Coloured Peo-

ples National Union,

" E a r l y on in the

proceedings

Mr.Golding made an unsuccessful attempt to

discredit

MR.

15264

LOLLM

the Convention by announcing that the whole idea had "been i n i t i a t e d by the Chairman of the Coon Carnival and financed by Malays.

This was greeted w i t h loud booing, the Chairman

M r . E , A . D e a n , refuted Mr. f o l d i n g ' s allegations adding that he and h i s associates who organised the Convention had not felt it necessary to go Walked o u t :

'cap i n hand to the Prime M i n i s t e r ' .

Later on, Mr. Golding t r i e d to persuade the

meeting that there was no need to form another

organisation

- that they should rather put their own house in first.

order

The trouble w a s , he s a i d , that whenever anyone

t r i e d to lead the Coloured people he was others'.

'torn down by

M r . Golding was unable to continue h i s

because of loud and derisive

j e e r i n g and i n

he and the other representatives of the Convention.

speech

desperation

of the C . P . N . U . walked out

Franchise f o r a l l :

Introducing

dis-

cussion on the value of the v o t e , D r . R . E . van der Rass said that there were three categories to y/hich the of the Convention could KENNEDY J : -

Page 4 , my l o r d , y e s .

opinion

conform. You are now reading from page 4? "The

retention of the status quo

- the extension of the franchise to women, and

finally,

the extension of the f u l l franchise to adults of a l l r a c e s . His b r o t h e r , Mr. G . A . v , d . R a s s ,

spoke i n favour of the

extension of the franchise to Coloured women and co-operating w i t h the Africans

i n the s t r u g g l e to obtain f u l l

ship rights f o r a l l South A f r i c a n s .

M r . Dean

sorry, my lords - " T h e Chairman, Mr. D e a n ,

citizen- - I'm

emphasised

that the Convention had not been merely to plead w i t h the Government, but was a determined attempt to get the vote extended.

Fundamental Human R i g h t s :

The vote is a

MR. LOIIAN

15265

fundamental human r i g h t , d e c l a r e d the resolution adopted by the Convention.

The Coloured vote at present is an

unworthy symbol of c i t i z e n s h i p insofar as it is not a full vote.

The Convention i n s i s t s that the Coloured

person i s worthy of exercising the f u l l franchise and that a l l adult men and women, irreespective should have the r i g h t

of

colour,

to vote and be voted for i n a l l

the Councils of the N a t i o n .

At the same time,

Convention i n s i s t s that the

the

present vote on the common

role should not be sacrificed as i t s loss would mean a setback to the movement for f u l l f r a n c h i s e .

I n propos-

ing the formation of a National Coloured Organisation D r . v . d . Rass said that i n addition to taking a stand on the threat to the Coloured v o t e , issues a f f e c t i n g

there were v i t a l

the Coloured people.

must be registered as v o t e r s .

A l l those

eligible

A strong voice should be

added to that of the teachers i n educational

matters

and opposition to the Group Areas Act must be Such l e g i s l a t i o n as t h i s , s a i d D r . v

sd.

organised.

R a s s , puts us

i n a position in society from which we w i l l not be able to r i s e in the next hundred years-,

As long as we accept

the idea that we are superior to the Africans we have no legitimate claim to the rights now enjoyed by the Europeans.

Said Mr. G.Ao v . d .

Rass:

We must work along-

side the A f r i c a n but f i r s t we must form an organisation which w i l l speak w i t h one voice for the Coloured

people.

In reply to the contention of M r . Golding Mr. P „ P . Joshua C . P . N . U . said there already existed

sufficient

n i s a t i o n s among the Coloured people w i t h o u t being formed.

orga-

another

M r . A . Simon s a i d : There do e x i s t

a

I

MR.

15266

LOLLM

number of organisations but have they a consistent and militant leadership?

The A f r i c a n s are already organised

while the Coloured people a r e

still

dormant.

This

is

because i n the past the teachers divorced themselves the struggle of the people 5 s a c r i f i c o t h e i r cheques.

from

they were not prepared to

The anti-train apartheid

paign was an instance of t h a t .

cam-

Committee e l e c t e d :

Cer-

t a i n persons who claimed to be leaders of the Coloured people used t h e i r organisations f o r their own personal aggrandisement,

said a d e l e g a t e .

One duty of a new Colour-

ed Organisation would be to expose those who respond to the Government's search for s t o o g e s .

Several

10

speakers

including M r . R . September and Mr. G . A . v . d . Rass

stressed

the importance of the new organisation b e i n g formed on a b a s i s of i n d i v i d u a l membership.

A Federal

Organisation -15

they maintained, could never succeed i n r a l l y i n g the mass of the people behind i t , which was what the new organisation must aim at doing. elected to

The committee which was

draw up a Constitution, and present it to anoth-

er Convention in a month's time consisted ofs M r . G .

A.

v . d . R a s s , M r . E e Doman, M r . E . A „ D e a n , Mr. R . September, D r . R . E . v . d . Rass, M r . F . B . Hardin ( ? ) , Mr, J .

Gomas,

M r . F . M . S e a l , M r . S . B . Lottig and M r . F . Brayhim MR. KATHRADA; KENNEDY J ;

I s that the end of i t ? —

(?). Yes.

Were you present at the Peoples 25

Convention?— No, my l o r d . MR. K A T H R A D A I L o l l a n , to "Advance"

20

now w a n t to r e f e r you, Mr.

of the 1 7 t h September, 1 9 5 3 .

On

page 7 there is an a r t i c l e headed "New Coloured Organ i s a t i o n Formed"?— That is s o , my l o r d s .

30

15267

Does this a r t i c l e

MR. LOLLAU

refer to the formation of the

South A f r i c a n Coloured Peoples O r g a n i s a t i o n ? — so,

That

is

my l o r d s . I s there any i n d i c a t i o n

as to when this

Convention was h e l d ? — What was the question I s there any i n d i c a t i o n

second

again?

- - there i s a

reference

there to the fact that this organisation was formed at the Convention

.

.

.

KENNEDY J ;

Do you know when i t was

formed,

when this meeting was formed, was h e l d ,

at which the

S.A.C.P.O.

September,1953.

came into b e i n g ? —

I t was in

Were you present at that m e e t i n g ? — No, my lord. RUMPFF J : ?—

I

d o n ' t know i f i t names the

This gives the d e c i s i o n

to form the

of the Convention,

Was i t c a l l e d the South A f r i c a n

Coloured Peoples O r g a n i s a t i o n , Peoples O r g a n i s a t i o n ? — that,

democratic

or just the Coloured

I think the f ^ r s t

my l o r d ,

Peoples O r g a n i s a t i o n " , of f u l l

my l o r d ,

organisation,

KENNEDY J :

clarifies

S.A.C.P.O

paragraph

"The South A f r i c a n

"which aims at the

rights for a l l

Coloured

attainment

people,........."

Yes. MR. KATHRADA: article

Mr. Lollan,

there i s a l i s t

at the end of

of committee members of the

South A f r i c a n Coloured Peoples O r g a n i s a t i o n ; you read out that l i s t RUMPFF J :

are you going to ask him

whether he knows that that i s

about certain people

would

please?—

Well,

MR. KATHRADA:

that

Yes,

so?

I ' m going to ask him

on the l i s t as w e l l ,

my l o r d .

MR.

15268

RUMPFF J :

Because as i t stands that i s not

evidence u n l e s s i t ' s S.A.C.P.O,

LOLLAN

1

an o f f i c i a l communication by the

that those members were committee

MR. KATHRADA:

members.

I ' m going to ask him whether

to

his knowledge those were the f i r s t members of the committee,

5

my l o r d , RUMPFF J :

Yes.

Look at the names

MR. KATHRADA:

Mr. L o l l a n ,

then.

who of your own

knowledge do you know became members of the

committee?—

M r . Dean was elected Chairman of the O r g a n i s a t i o n ,

and

the f o l l o w i n g people were elected to the committee: RUMPFF J :

Yes,

well,

10

give us the names of those

who of your own knowledge became members of the committ e e ? — M r . Dean, D r . Mr. E.F.

v.d.

Doman, M r . R .

M r . Rodar,

Rass, Mr.

G-. v . d .

September, M r . D .

Rass,

v.d.

Rass,

M r . Wentworth, M r s . P e a l , M r . C a r l s a , M r .

Rahim, M r s . Smith and M r . J . Now in t h i s l i s t

Mussel.

of names y o u ' v e

any Communists to your own knowledge?— what the p e o p l e ' s p o l i t i c a l a f f i l i a t i o n s subsequently I l e a r n t

15

read are

there

I did not know were,

but

only

of some people who were members

20

of the Communist P a r t y before i t was put an end t o . MR. KATHRADA s I

Could you t e l l us who they w e r e ? —

l e a r n t from evidence

was

in this Court that Mr.R.September

one. RUMPFF J :

That is not a good b a s i s

for your

25

own knowledge. MR. KATHRADA: from evidence

Have you any knowledge,

given in this Court,

of any other members

who were members of the Communist P a r t y ? — Any o t h e r s ? —

That i s a l l ,

apart

my l o r d s .

Mrs.F.Thaele. 30

MR.

15269

Do you know M r s . few o c c a s i o n s ;

Thaele?—

met her on a

at present I know s h e ' s working for

Department of Coloured A f f a i r s . , the Union to gain this

I've

LOLLAN

and has recently

the

toured

the support of the Coloured people

for

department. I s she s t i l l a member of the South A f r i c a n

Coloured Peoples O r g a n i s a t i o n ? — be a member in 1 9 5 4 ,

I think she ceased to

my l o r d s .

You feave told the Court e a r l i e r among the founders

that you were

of the South A f r i c a n Peoples

tion in the T r a n s v a a l ? —

That is

Why did you form this

Organisa-

10

correct. organisation?—

Because

a f t e r I had had communication with the South A f r i c a n Peoples O r g a n i s a t i o n ments,

in Cape Town,

and I had seen t h e i r

and had come to know that

state-

their p o l i c y was to work

15 with a l l non-European

organisations,

and with a l l

people

in South A f r i c a

for the aims stated in the a r t i c l e s

had read.

my l o r d s ,

And,

I

from a study of documents and

a history of the A f r i c a n Peoples O r g a n i s a t i o n ,

I felt

that

t h i s was the only Coloured O r g a n i s a t i o n which seemed to

20 carry on the p o l i c y of the former A f r i c a n Peoples

Orga-

nisation 3 The an a r t i c l e

"Advance"

of the 11th March,

1954,

has

. . . . KENNEDY J ;

I s that E x h i b i t Number

G.1122

25

also? MR. KATHRADA: Reading from t h i s

issue

MR. HOEXTER: to at page 3 6 1 7 .

.

As your l o r d s h i p .

pleases?—

.

Yes,

my l o r d ,

and i s

referred

I d o n ' t know whether the a r t i c l e

proposed

30

MR.

15270

to be read was read i n , MR. KATHRADA:

LOLLAN

my l o r d s . My l o r d s ,

t h i s a r t i c l e was

read

In. I RUMPFF J :

Do you want to ask the witness whether

that sets out c o r r e c t l y MR. KATHRADA:

the

facts?

My l o r d ,

may the witness be seat-

ed? RUMPFF J :

Yes,

certainly?—

That is c o r r e c t , my

lords. MR. KATHRADA:

You have s a i d that you regard the

South A f r i c a n Peoples Organisation

as a continuation -

the South A f r i c a n Coloured Peoples O r g a n i s a t i o n , continuation is correct,

RUMPFF J : vant to the new

I intend to ask the witness a few quesof the A f r i c a n Peoples

Yes,

i n s o f a r as I take it it i s

As your l o r d s h i p p l e a s e s ;

f a r as the witness proclaims

the S . A . C . P . O .

of the A f r i c a n Peoples RUMPFF J :

1 9 0 2 by D r .

rele-

inso-

is a conti-

Organisation.

Yes.

MR. KATHRADA: Organisation

Organisation.

S.A.C.P.O.

MR. KATHRADA:

Is

That

my l o r d s .

on the h i s t o r y

nuation

a

of the A f r i c a n Peoples O r g a n i s a t i o n ? —

My l o r d s , tions

as

When was the A f r i c a n

formed. M r . L o l l a n ? —

Peoples

I t was formed in

Abduriman. there any pa r t i c u l a r

formed in 1 9 0 2 ? —

reason why i t was

I t was soon a f t e r the South A f r i c a n

War and the people f e l t

that that would be the best

time to a g i t a t e for the extension the Northern

Provinces.

of the f r a n c h i s e

to

MR.

15271

BEKKER J :

Mr. Kathrada,

I am

LOLLAN

a bit puzzled,

i

To what extent i s i t relevant for purposes of your case to go into the h i s t o r i c a l Lollan

details,or

to go into the h i s t o r i c a l

of t h i s

organisation?

even the

d e t a i l and

accused

development

Have you considered that or not?

MR. KATHRADA:

My l o r d ,

I

the witness into very great d e t a i l

do not intend to take i n s o f a r as the

tory of the o r g a n i s a t i o n i s concerned;

I

5

his-

proposeto

show that i n s o f a r as the methods adopted by the South A f r i c a n Peoples O r g a n i s a t i o n

are concerned,

the basic policy of the organisation

insofar

i s no d i f f e r e n t

Coloured

- - i t ' s not a

new p o l i c y that came into being during the period the Indictment

.

of

.

BEKKER J : that,

10

i s concerned,

the p o l i c y c a r r i e d out by the South A f r i c a n Peoples O r g a n i s a t i o n

as

That I can u n d e r s t a n d ,

what does i t matter?

but even

15

What does i t matter whe-

ther i t i s the same p o l i c y ;

we are r e a l l y

concerned

with the policy of the South A f r i c a n Coloured Peoples Organisation,

whether i t s

different

from,

as the old A f r i c a n Peoples O r g a n i s a t i o n MR. KATHRADA; ing,

my l o r d s ,

20

that the South

A f r i c a n Coloured Peoples O r g a n i s a t i o n ,

certain period.

. . .

According to my understand-

there is an a l l e g a t i o n

entered into a conspiracy

or the same

among others,

that came into being at a

I want to show,

my l o r d s ,

that no

new c o n s p i r a c y came into being during the period the Indictment, organisations

that the co-operation between

e x i s t e d long before 1 9 5 2 .

BEKKER J :

.

25

of

the

.

Does that matter in view of the

admission made on b e h a l f

of the accused atthe o u t s e t ,

JO

15272

that whether you c a l l agreement;

MR.

i t conspiracy i t ' s

agreement i s conspiracy,

LOLLAN

r e a l l y an

or v i c e

versa,

but there was an admission of an agreement amongst various

organisations

against certain laws, new government?

that they were working

together

and that they wished to form a

Does i t matter whether there was an

agreement p r i o r to t h a t ;

the relevant period i s

period

and that i s already

of the Indictment

bodies did work t o g e t h e r .

the

covered

by an admission made on b e h a l f of the Defence

it

the

that

these

Except that you could put

simply on this b a s i s and wait to see i f there i s

oross examination about i t .

any

Ask the witness what he

knows, whether he knows from reading or from his own experience tion.

the p o l i c y

of the A f r i c a n Peoples

Does he know that from his

Organisa-

own e x p e r i e n c e ,

or

from r e a d i n g . MR. KATHRADA:

As accepted by his

organisa-

tion , coy l o r d . RUMPFF J ;

I n what manner,

r e a d i n g or by personal knowledge?

accepted? Either

By

the members

must have been members of the other o r g a n i s a t i o n , A f r i c a n Peoples O r g a n i s a t i o n ,

the

or they must know i t

from

reading. MR. KATHRADA: RUMPFF J : S.A.C.P.O.

My l o r d s ,

the old A . P . O .

with the non-Europeans, my l o r d .

did the

the same as that of the A . P . O ?

? — As far as that i s concerned,

i s so,

.

onwards regard i t s me-

struggle in regard to the non-Europeans

Yes;

.

You can put i t t h i s way,

from i t s inception

thod of struggle

he h a s .

of t h i s

my l o r d ,

Its country

yes.

struggle was to join

the other

in

non-Eruropeans?—That

15273

MR.

In what other respect was there MR. KATHRADA: as f a r as I

remember i t ,

that S . A . C . P . O .

My l o r d ,

identity?

the C r o w n ' s

in their Opening A d d r e s s ,

t h i s conspiracy

a l l e g a t i o n s about i n f i l t r a t i o n ,

RUMPFF J :

Yes,

.

but w e ' r e

you want to deal with the history seems to me i r r e l e v a n t ;

.

.

. on the A . P . O .

of the A . P . O

is

which

of the

RUMPFF J :

I intended to put those

Yes, well,

MR. KATHRADA:

we d o n ' t need examples answer.

M r . L o l l a n . what was the

tude of the A f r i c a n Peoples Organisation

to the

the A f r i c a n Peoples Organisation

that you cannot secure

the f r a n c h i s e

Well,

I t wanted u n i v e r s a l Right....?—

franchise had

felt

yes,

of

franchise.

did i t want u n i v e r s a l

franchise,

atti-

for one section

the people i f another section has not got the RUMPFF J :

ques-

my l o r d .

i f he can give a straightforward

Union came

what

there?

tions to him by way of examples,

My l o r d s ,

now;

i f you ask him shortly what

MR. KATHRADA:

franchise

my l o r d .

Because in 1 9 1 0 , when the A c t

of

. . . . Wells

policy.

are

and i f they were continued in the S . A . C P . O .

difference

of

infiltration

were the methods of struggle and the objects

?—

was

. and there

some new

that has taken place by Communists

?—

allegation

was formed to provide other segments

the population into

A.P.O.

LOLLAN

we

i t d o e s n ' t matter why;

that was

d o n ' t want to know what the A . P . O .

i t wanted in 1 9 1 0 ;

but i t s policy

one of u n i v e r s a l f r a n c h i s e ? — Y e s ,

decided

throughout,fas my l o r d .

its

that

15274

MR. LOLLAN

And equal r i g h t s ? — Y e s , all

sections,

and equal rights

for

my l o r d .

You say that the

in fact

introduced

no new element as f a r as that i s concerned;

i t wanted

universal

S.A.C.P.O

f r a n c h i s e and equal r i g h t s ? — And used

same methods of struggle for those What method did the A . P . O .

the

rights. use?—

The A . P . O .

send deputations and organised protest meetings; organised

they

several protest meetings to the Houses

Parliament,

and they sent several deputations

B r i t i s h Houses of P a r l i a m e n t ;

to the

in f a c t they were

ing to persuade the B r i t i s h Parliament not pass South A f r i c a A c t ,

of

and they a l s o ,

my l o r d s - -

trythe

- an

a l l e g a t i o n has been made that the South A f r i c a n

Colour-

ed Peoples O r g a n i s a t i o n condemned the South A f r i c a well,

the A f r i c a n Peoples O r g a n i s a t i o n

Act even before i t was passed,

condemned

Act;

this

my l o r d .

Yes, MR. KATHRADA:

I d o n ' t know i f y o u ' v e

mentioned t h i s - - did the A . P . O . as a method of p r o t e s t ? — RUMPFF J ;

He's

MR. KATHRADA:

regard

demonstration

That i s c o r r e c t , said so,

already

my l o r d .

yes.

Now, M r . L o l l a n ,

is it

believed

among the Coloured people that members of the Government,

General H e r t z o g ,

D r . Malan - had firm views on

the question of the Coloured v o t e , the years 1 9 2 0

to 1 9 3 0 ? —

especially

That is c o r r e c t ,

My l o r d s , with your l o r d s h i p s '

during

my l o r d s .

permission I would

to read what was said - - an extract

like

of a speech made

by General Hertzog in S m i t h f i e l d in 1 9 2 5 .

.

.

.

15275

RUMPFF J :

MR.

LOLLAN

For what p u r p o s e ? — My l o r d s ,

want to show why the Coloured people f e e l that have been l e t down in t h i s way; originally

they

because people

have the whole speech; read the whole speech, Well,

We d o n ' t need to

what did he s a y ? —

I

won't

my l o r d .

what did he s a y ? —

General Hertzog

that the Coloured people should not be treated there should be no s e g r e g a t i o n ,

franchise

and that

rights should be extended to the

and Orange Free S t a t e , felt

who

. . . .

Do you know what he said?

ly;

we

felt

separatethe

and together w i t h D r . Malan

that the f r a n c h i s e

10

Transvaal they

rights should be given to Colour-

ed women at at the time that they were given to Coloured women.

This,

my l o r d ,

was then Prime M i n i s t e r ,

w i l l show that Dr Malan,

who

when the Coloured people were

removed from the common voters role in 1 9 5 1 ,

15

had gone

back on promises which he had made to the Coloured people

before. Yes...?—

And that i s why,

my l o r d ,

the

Coloured people f e e l that one cannot depend on a spon-

20

taneous change of heart amongst i n d i v i d u a l members of the Government and so f o r t h ,

because promises made by

responsible people are a f t e r w a r d s , changed, whereas i f at that time,

everybody had the f r a n c h i s e

and there was u n i v e r s a l f r a n c h i s e ,

ment would not be in a p o s i t i o n Well,

> /

by those very

I

people, rights Parlia-

to pass these A c t s .

suggest i f the Crown disputes

.

this

then you can cross examine and produce that

speech.

It's

This i s *vtet

not necessary

the witness

says.

to hear the speech now.

25

30

MR.

15276

MR. KATHRADA: Lollan,

LOLLAN

As your l o r d s h i p p l e a s e s .

you have spoken of the r i g h t s of the Coloured

p e o p l e ? — That i s

so.

In the y e a r s ,

in the past twenty,

thirty

years,

what would you say - - have you any comment rather make on the rights

to

of the Coloured people generally?

Have they increased I

1

Mr.

in any way,

think i t i s common knowledge

5

d e c r e a s e d ? — My l o r d s , that in the past - - -

e s p e c i a l l y in the past ten y e a r s ,

i n s t e a d of any

rights

or p r i v i l e g e s b e i n g extended to the Coloured p e o p l e , has been a continuous

deprivation

f a r as the vote i s concerned,

of these r i g h t s .

my l o r d s ,

As

^

in 1910 when the

Act of Union was passed the Coloured people were prevented for the f i r s t

there

then

time - or the right to be

to the Parliament was taken away from them .

.

elected

. 15

RUMPFF J : cross examination,

Was t h i s not put to P r o f . Murray in the C o n s t i t u t i o n a l

MR. KATHRADA:

My l o r d s ,

position?

if I

nemember

correotly

the questions put to P r o f . Murray r e l a t e d mainly to the Africans' \

rights. RUMPFF J :

20 Yes.

MR. KATHRADA:

You're

d e a l i n g with the

r i g h t s of the Coloured p e o p l e ? — Y e s ; could then only be represented by their Provincial Councils chise

of the Cape.

franchise

The Coloured people owh people in

I n 1930 when the

rights were extended to European women only,

the

franthe

Coloured people f e l t that that was also i n t e r f e r i n g w i t h their

rights because i t lessened the e f f e c t of the Colour-

ed vote in the Cape,

and in 1 9 3 1 when the Adult

suffrage

was granted to European males, which then took away the

25

MR,

15277

qualification

clause,

that a l l European males over the

age of 21 could vote - - they changed the clause as f a r as the non-whites were Yes....?—

And l a t e r on,

pulsory r e g i s t r a t i o n

LOLLAN

qualification

concerned.

my l o r d s ,

for European v o t e r s ,

did not apply to the Coloured v o t e r s .

there was com-

whereas

By this

this

system

the Coloured vote was being undermined in Parliament because it

did not have the same e f f e c t i t had b e f o r e .

Well,

since 1 9 5 1 e f f o r t s have continuously been made

until

they were s u c c e s s f u l - - a f t e r

Indictment,

the period of the

to t o t a l l y remove the Coloured people from

the common v o t e ,

and their

rights to be elected on to

P r o v i n c i a l Councils was taken

away.

Are you aware of any steps that were taken 1 9 5 1 by the Coloured People rights?

Particularly

to protect t h e i r

in the C a p e ? — Y e s ,

in

franchise

my l o r d s ,

a

Convention was c a l l e d in the Cape and representatives there

of the Coloured Peoples N a t i o n a l U n i o n ,

A f r i c a n Peoples O r g a b i s a t i o n ,

of the

the A f r i c a n N a t i o n a l Con-

gress and the South A f r i c a n I n d i a n Congress were vited

to the Convention.

and

in-

Protests were arranged and

in fact on the 7th May, 1 9 5 1 ,

a one-day s t r i k e was

called

for by the Coloured people in the C a p e . What o r g a n i s a t i o n ?—

did you say c a l l e d the

strike

I t was c a l l e d by the Franchise Action Council whioh

was formed because of the threat that was then b e i n g made on the Coloured

vote.

Do you know whether the Franchise A c t i o n took any d e c i s i o n

r r l a t i n g to the D e f i a n c e

Council

Campaign?—

The Franchise A c t i o n Council was party to the

decision

MR.

15278

to launch t h i s D e f i a n c e

Campaign.

Apart from the f r a n c h i s e , the Coloured people Yes,

my l o r d s

.

.

LOLLAN

have other r i g h t s

diminished throughout the

of

years?—

.

Take land for i n s t a n c e ;

what have you to say

about their land r i g h t s ? — My l o r d s ,

the Coloured land

r i g h t s were very free - - in the Cape they could buy land wherever they chose. in Natal,

I think that was the

position

too - - I ' m not sure of the p o s i t i o n in

Free S t a t e .

the

But the p o s i t i o n in the Transvaal was ham-

pered by the v a r i o u s Gold laws and M i n e r a l laws that were passed, land,

but even then Coloured people could purchase

and e s p e c i a l l y

in the Cape,

my l o r d s ,

the Coloured

people have land almost in every C i t y and every part of the C i t i e s ,

and t h i s has been taken away now by the Group

Areas A c t . Could you give an instance

or two of the

of the Group Areas Act in Johannesburg,

effect

particularly

s o f a r as Coloured areas are c o n c e r n e d ? — My l o r d s , ed people had the r i g h t to piirchase land in for instance;

some of them owned land in

Colour-

Johannesburg

Sophiatown,

and a Coloured township which was b u i l t u p ,

jilbertsville,

N e w c l a r e , Kliptown and Protea - - the p o s i t i o n as as A l b e r t z v i l l e

in-

e s p e c i a l l y i s concerned i s

felt

Coloured people because when there was no place

far

bythe for

them in Town they were offered t h i s place which was virt u a l l y a refuse dump;

at great expense they l e v e l l e d

t h i s place and a f t e r years of s t r u g g l i n g to have t r i c i t y and water l a i d and now t h i s p l a c e , area.

on,

too,

off

elec-

they b u i l t l o v e l y homes there

has been declared a European

As the p o s i t i o n i s at the moment,

my l o r d s ,

MR.

15279

LALLON

whereas there were several Coloured areas where they oould buy they

are only l e f t with Newclare.

My l o r d s ,

important to note that when these people were places i t was a b i t

it

is

given

out of Town and i t was undeveloped,

and the general e f f e c t

on non-European property i s

that

the moment i t becomes developed and because land i s scarce for them,

the p r i c e s i n c r e a s e ,

which i t costs the non-European IOC x 50 f t .

1

as a result

to buy a stand of

5

of say

in a place l i k e Newclare more than i t

costs

the European to buy property of the same s i z e in a place l i k e Houghton.

And these places

are b u i l t up by arti-

sans who earn from £10 to £15 a week and i s never on the b a s i s

of the market v a l u e ,

jobs threatened as they are BEKKER J : ? — My l o r d s ,

compensation

.

.

and w i t h

.

On what b a s i s i s compensation

paid

something very much l e s s than market v a l u e .

Normally market value of properties i s about four or f i v e

in non-European

times the M u n i c i p a l

^

areas

valuation.

Y e s ? — And many of these people who bought property were in the a r t i s a n group - they were

builders, oo

and so f o r t h ,

and Job reservation has been declared

in

these occupations and the people have no hope of ever e a r n i n g the s a l a r i e s

that they did earn b e f o r e ,

And in Cape Town

.

„ .

MRC KATHRADA: the Group Areas A c t , topic?— Well,

Are you continuing

my l o r d s .

to deal w i t h

or are you g e t t i n g on to a new

the Group Areas A c t .

D i d you want to say any more on the Group Areas A c t ? — W e l l , be far worse

I

say the e f f e c t

than in Johannesburg,

in Cape Town would because

complete u n r e s t r i c t e d property r i g h t s

there,

there was and i t

does

30

MR.

LOLLAN

15280

aeem,

my l o r d s ,

that the tendency i s not so much to

grant non-Europeans new areas in which to buy property b u t where the M u n i c i p a l i t y w i l l be able to put up the houses I

and that r e s t r i c t s

Coloured

people.

the land r i g h t s of the

You mentioned something about the job vations?—

That i s

Now, ally,

so.

taking the p o s i t i o n

of coloured p e o p l e ,

recent y e a r s ? — My l o r d s , too,

it's

people,

reser-

of employment

gener-

how has this been a f f e c t e d in the f i e l d

of employment,

a long h i s t o r y of deprivation

for the

because what was c a l l e d the c i v i l i s e d

p o l i c y was introduced in the 2 0 ' s ,

in

Coloured

labour

which had a very

grave e f f e c t on the employment of Coloured p e o p l e ;

the

Act of Union a l s o took away the r i g h t of Coloured people to be employed i n the C i v i l S e r v i c e ,

and when the Govern-

ment introduced the C i v i l i z e d Labour P o l i c y i t was

feared

that that was the deathknell of th/? a r t i s a n group in the Cape,

and now w i t h the introduction

of job

reservation

t h a t has further diminished the p o s s i b i l i t y people being employed in s k i l l e d lords,

I ' d like

of Coloured

occupations.

to say that I do not thxnk that

My there

i s a s i n g l e b u i l d i n g in Cape Town e s p e c i a l l y that has been put up without the handicap of a coloured man having gone i n

there.

A coloured man doing w h a t ? — H a v i n g put up that b u i l d i n g ; ers,

they were the b r i c k l a y e r s ,

the plumbers

.

. and today under

job

the plasterreservation

they w i l l not be permitted to put up b u i l d i n g s are considered European a r e a s .

in what

And this at the time

Collection: 1956 Treason Trial Collection number: AD1812

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