JORDAN HARBINGER EPISODE TRANSCRIPT Announcer: Welcome to the Best Passive Income Model Podcast with Mark Podolsky aka the Land Geek. Listen in as Mark has unscripted, free-flowing conversations with real estate and business experts. Discover why land investing is the best passive income model as Mark challenges each guest to think of a better passive income business. Learn about strategies, skills, and helpful tips that will help you grow your passive income through land investing today. Mark: Hey, it’s Mark Podolsky, the Land Geek with your favorite niche-y real estate website at www.thelandgeek.com and today’s guest is really kind of unique and different and special in the area of business and your relationships and just being a more well-rounded human being in all areas of your life but especially in business. Jordan Harbinger the co-founder of the company, the Art of Charm podcast, which hits 2,000,000 downloads a month. It’s top 50 podcast in iTunes. They have 440+ episodes. What are you gonna learn from Art of Charm? How to become more charismatic in any situation, master your career by becoming a super connector, revamp your love life and intimate relationships with reborn confidence and we get to talk to the guy, the man, the myth. You’re a big deal! Welcome to the Best Passive Income Model Podcast! How are you? Jordan: Hi and thanks for having me on. I appreciate it! Mark: So, I assume that when you were born, you weren’t born charming. Jordan: No. Nobody is. Mark: Nobody is. So your parents were like, “Jordan you’re so charming. You’re so wonderful. You’re so charismatic.” Jordan: They get this…from the Art of Charm.

Mark: Yeah! Yeah! Jordan: Wow, did you do that? I feel like something just played. Mark: No, that wasn’t me. Jordan: Okay. That’s weird. I probably hit a key on the keyboard! Won’t happen again. [laughs] Mark: See, yeah. No worries. But so kind of take me from the very beginning where you kind of saw this niche in the marketplace where you thought, “You know what? People can do a lot better in business, their social lives, their love life, and kinda walk me through that thought process and how you became so effective at it. Jordan: Sure, so the short version of the story, cause I know we’re limited on time here and also I’ve told it on my show so much, I don’t want to bore people who’ve heard it before or myself, for that matter, or you. Mark: Sure. Jordan: I was in law school and I was doing an internship, which was basically like a job interview-type deal for a summer at a law firm and the guy who hired me was never around. He was known as the highest compensated partner though. So I was a little bit confused as to how if we’re supposed to bill hours, the person who makes the most money is never there, what’s he doing? So one day, I asked him. I said, “how come you’re the highest paid partner, one of them, and you’re never in the office. And he told me how he’s making connections and going out and getting clients and I thought, “oh, for some reason I thought when you became a partner, you would meet all this people and get networked and all that stuff.” But really, what happens is you get networked and that helps you become partner. So I thought, this is my key to the top because I’m not the smartest guy in the firm. Definitely, I’m not going to be the hardest working cause there were people who were willing to work twenty hours a day, seven days a week and I’m not exaggerating. There were people sleeping under their desks. I mean, this is Wall Street. Mark: Wow. Jordan: So, I thought, this is my competitive advantage. Mark: Right. Jordan: So I started to dedicate my entire life to not figuring out not how to ace my next Torts exam or whatever but how to actually get people to like and trust

me so then I could start to make a book a business. I thought that would get me to the top of the legal game. What happened was, through the course of practicing this and meeting my business partner, AJ who’s still the head instructor at the Art of Charm, we started to apply it to dating, we started to apply it to business networking, to just regular family stuff, social circle stuff and we realised that this skill stuff actually permeates everything you do. So we start meet really successful people while we were out putting the stuff into action and what we found was all of these top real estate people, these wealthy people, these…you know, the guy who’s the head of surgery at UofM, University of Michigan Hospital. The mayors like entourage, if you will. All these senators and stuff like that. We were actually meeting these people and we’re like, “wait a minute. They know everybody and if we know them, we’re part of everybody and if we keep doing this, we’re gonna end up being successful too. Because look at all these people that make it a point to know everyone.” So we kind of had a really good look at this process from the inside, by accident. Because we were putting this stuff into action. We finally…the networking and the circle of trust around successful people. We’re also doing this and creating relationships, we kind of found, “oh, successful people do this all the time.” And they just don’t talk about it cause it seems natural for them. So, if we master this, the world is our oyster and that’s true. I mean, it’s true. It’s all about who you know and a lot of people would try disagree but it’s mostly just wishful thinking on their part. Mark: Yeah, it’s interesting because I had Grant Cardone, the author of the 10X Rule on the podcast and kind of his big thing is that he wants to be known by everybody and he’s like, “it’s not money. It’s not skills, or this is like…no one knows you. People know you, you’re not gonna ever break through in anything.” And so, you know, here you are ostensibly teaching people in a way, how to kind of break through. And the next question would be, you know, if you’re an introvert or you are somebody that kind of sees themselves as having a difficult time kind of putting themselves out there. How do you kind of turn them around? Jordan: Yeah, I mean that’s what we do and that’s why we have jobs, right. So, first of all, I kind of want to bash this down. Mark: Sure! Jordan: Introvert, being an introvert is kind of a trendy excuse these days. Now that people have found out that it’s a personality type and trait and what not. And people will throw it around like it’s a medical excuse not to be social or create relationships.

All introvert-extrovert means is extroverted people relax hanging out in social situations. Introverted people relax with ‘me time.’ The way that it starts to diverge or cause people to diverge is when you’re a kid, if you’re relaxing with me time, your social skills develop a little bit slowly because you spend more time reading or hanging out alone and being with yourself whereas extroverts, when they hang out as kids, they’re with other people so they develop a different set of social skills. It has nothing to do with your ability to learn social skills. It definitely has no impact on your ability to put them into practice once you do learn them. So introverts, it’s kind of this convenient thing now where people go, “I’m an introvert now, I can’t do that.” Well okay, fine. You will be less successful than everyone else. If you’re prepared to accept that, cool. Lean on introvert. If you’re not, then throw that excuse out with all the other garbage and all the other head trash and learn social skills. Easier said than done but I mean this is why we have the entire Art of Charm podcast, which teaches a lot of these basic skill sets and mind sets and tactics. And also why we have our emerging class in Los Angeles, where people come from all over the world, literally and stay here and learn these advanced social skills for top performers. It’s not something that you can nowadays kinda be like, “oh, well, I don’t need that.” In fact, the professions where people really don’t need it, like you’re a coder and you work in a basement for twelve hours a day, plugging away at things. The reason that you don’t need it is because it is by nature, isolationist. But if you want to move up the ladder, if you wanna manage people, be in charge of projects, ever get above a certain pay grade, you have to have these skill sets or you’re just gonna be Milton who works in the basement. Like in Office Space. Did you ever see that movie? Mark: Yeah. Yeah. I love that movie. Jordan: Yeah, I mean, that guy might have been great at his job but since nobody cared for his social skill set, he was in the basement with the cockroaches and you know, had to burn the place down, at the end. Right? Mark: Right. Jordan: So, spoiler alert. [laughs] Mark: [laughs] Jordan: So, I mean, that’s the kind of thing that we see and there’s really no getting around it. It may be more painful for some people to learn these skills

because they’re a little bit further behind. But there’s nothing scientific or otherwise that says it’s harder for some people to learn than others unless you’re on the Autism Spectrum. Mark: Okay. Okay. So you know, when you say you’re teaching people to leverage the power of social dynamics in Applied Psychology, right. What does that really mean? Jordan: What this means is we’re teaching non verbal communication, how to read non verbal communication, how to communicate in verbal and non verbal ways that increase your personal magnetism using things we already know from science. Like, this is what charismatic people do with their body. This is what charismatic people do with their voice. This is how charismatic people hold conversations. So we take Social Science, we take Psychology, we take Sociology and we create drills and exercises to help people actually learn and then apply those skills. Because right now, as it stands, the way people try teach this stuff, especially the kids, is that they throw them in situations with other kids. And that can be super useful but once you become an adult and if you suddenly wake up and say “Crap, I’m thirty and I’m really quiet or I’m twenty five and I’m really quiet. I wanna get ahead. Just going out to socialize more is not really gonna help you that much. It’s gonna take years to catch up and your observations of people are gonna be colored by your experiences. When you’re a kid, that’s fine because your experiences are so limited. You’re basically coming in as a beginner. When you’re twenty five, thirty or older and you come in and people…okay, let me give you a real example. If you take a seven or eight year old kid, or a ten year old kid, even, and you say “go play with the other kids.” He’s like, “oh, I don’t want to.” Cause he’s quiet and …. (incomprehensible) Mark: Sure. Jordan: …and social skills and learn how to make friends. If people ignore him, he’s just like, “oh, I’ll just keep trying.” or “I guess I’ll go play by myself for a while and then try again later.” And you can keep prodding him and he can keep going, keep trying, and it doesn’t really matter. If you’re twenty five and people ignore you, what happens? You go, “Nobody likes me. Oh, they don’t wanna make new friends. They’re busy. This place is clique-y. I don’t wanna be here anyway.” There’s all kinds of weird ego stuff that goes on and there’s all kinds of judgments that happen in your head because you don’t really know the answer. So, it’s much different experience when you’re an adult, trying to make it in an office environment with politics and other things like these going on versus a kid on the playground who’s like, “oh, they said I couldn’t play ball with them. I guess I’ll ask again in thirty seconds.” Or, “I guess I’ll just start playing.”

Mark: Right. Jordan: Nobody’s gonna do anything. Doesn’t work like that when you’re thirty five years old, right? So, it’s a completely different ballgame and in order to make up for lost time, you need to replace the programming that’s in your head that you’ve had for your whole life. Again, it’s real easy to do that with kids cause you can tell them, “hey look, this is how things are probably gonna be” and then it will be changed after a few reps. But for an adult it could take years. Mark: Yeah, I mean the whole thing is so interesting and from a business standpoint, it’s like, it’s a massive market, Jordan cause literally, everyone needs it because everyone has a relationship and so no matter where you are in life, you always want to kinda get more persuasive at home, right? You wanna earn more respect with your peers and colleagues, you wanna have deeper personal relationships. And there’s kind of this trend now, I’ll give an example, an example would be like a Brene Brown, right? Where you see in the business arenas where people are saying, “be more vulnerable,” right? And it kinda feels inauthentic. Like you can’t just kinda go to your Procter and Gamble, cubicle and be more vulnerable and leave this vulnerability and think, “oh, that’s gonna make me more likeable or more charming. I mean, what do you think about all that? Jordan: Yeah, I mean…I guess…Can you repeat the question? Cause I’m not sure I got actually got the question out of that and that could be my fault. Mark: The question is there’s this trend towards vulnerability in the workplace and Brene Brown’s kind of popularized it. Do you think that that strategy is really a deep effective way of going about building relationship at work and strengthening and deepening personal relationships or earning the respect of your peers and colleagues, or do you think it’s more a twisted version of what she’s speaking of? Jordan: Yeah, I mean, it’s tough to judge anyone else’s work and so I don’t want to do that. Mark: Right. Jordan: But I would say is that being vulnerable in any place is a great way to build rapport and trust. So, I’m gonna say she’s spot on on that one. That said, it’s not just about being vulnerable. There are plenty people out there who are vulnerable and they still don’t get their way and it’s not cause they’re not vulnerable enough. It’s because they’re doing a billion other things wrong. It’s really easy and I’m not saying that cause I’m doing this.

I think that it’s too hard to diagnose people that you’ve never met ever with some sort of problem. So, it’s really easy to say, “hey you know what? If a large number of us were more vulnerable, then a large number of us would achieve some results. And that’s totally correct. Technically correct. What it doesn’t mean is that if everybody listening suddenly becomes more vulnerable, it’s going to be the right move in your certain corporate culture with the people that you work with cause a lot of folks I know are really vulnerable and actually, it’s annoying and everyone hates it. Mark: Right, right! It’s too much. Right? Jordan: It’s too much! Like I don’t need to know all of your thoughts and feelings to get your job done. In fact, frankly, and I know it might sound like the opposite of the Art of Charm. I don’t want some of that in my workplace. And again, I’m not saying Brene is advocating for anything. Mark: I don’t think she is. I think that the business world is taking it and [laughs] you know, they’re kinda bastardizing it. Jordan: I agree with you. Mark: Yeah. Jordan: And it happens to a lot of smart people’s work because it’s easier to understand if you just say, robot says, “I read Brene Brown’s book and so vulnerability everybody.” And then, suddenly, everyone’s just totally handfistedly applying this vulnerability as a tactic instead of a cultural shift. Mark: Right. Right. And so, in the podcast and in your work, how are you able to, in such a short time, sort of transform people? Jordan: Well, there’s six months of prep. Mark: Okay. Jordan: There’s a weeklong residential component, and then there’s years of follow-up. So it’s not that short of a time. Mark: Okay, okay. I thought it was like this three-day bootcamp kind of thing. Jordan: No. Mark: And I come out of there and I’m super charming. Jordan: No, not at all.

Mark: Okay. Jordan: Not at all. Mark: Okay. Jordan: The process itself, in fact, most of the program grads, after the prep, they’re like, “I don’t know.” After a week, they’re all, “I’m so fired up, it all makes sense now with the prep and then after their follow-up three months later, a lot of people go through what we call slump where they go, “I don’t even know if I learned anything! This is awful! I feel terrible! And then, somewhere between month 2 and month 4, there’s that slump after that, they go, “wait, never mind. I just stopped seeing the results I saw right away and there was a sharp incline after the live portion. Now, it’s more steady and I’ve internalized so much of this, I don’t see the changes anymore. That’s actually a good thing and then like a year out, people go, “this changed my whole life, looking back.” Mark: Right, right! Not to make this like a beach body infomercial, but can you give me an example of where someone came in to you and they were kinda charmless and you got through to them, they came out, and these were the results. Jordan: Yeah, there were some ridiculously awesome success stories. Not all of them are gonna be super dramatic like this but there’s a guy who came through a long time ago. I’ll call him “Mike” because he’s got a unique-ish name and he came through and he was really overweight and he had dropped out of high school and he said, “I’m gonna be your worst client.” And I remember thinking, “I don’t want anybody to live up to that. That’s not good and it’s not encouraging.” So, we ran him through the program and after the program, he was like, “It was great! It was so fun but I got so much work to do and we just kept working with him and working with him. Now he lost over 100 pounds… Mark: Wow, Jordan. How does someone do that? Jordan: He found confidence in what we taught him and he realized, “oh, all this stuff is learnable and teachable, so I’ve got to come at this from different angles. If I’m gonna make this work, I need to get healthy too and I need to be presentable.” So he lost about 100 pounds after that and he bought a bunch of new clothes after that so he would look better. Cause I mean, this guy was wearing basketball shorts, ill-fitting t-shirts with stains on them, wasn’t combing his hair, didn’t have great hygiene. This isn’t our typical student. We normally get very high performers. He was actually retrospectively probably some kind of genius because dropped out of high school but he taught himself wireless networking. So he was an engineer.

Mark: Okay. Jordan: He just didn’t have a college education and he was a working a job that frankly, he was underpaid and overqualified to do even though he wasn’t technically qualified. And he quit his job, he started a consulting company after he had lost all the weight. We had been working on all of the social aspects of his skills the whole time. He ended up travelling around the world being a telecom consultant, helping companies like T-Mobile structure their wireless networks, not just wifi but like telecom cellular networks all over Europe and especially in Eastern Europe, which at this point, started investing really heavily in infrastructure. So he moved around and he kept working on his stuff, kept working on his stuff, came back for a follow-up program and now he works for Facebook. Mark: Unbelievable. Jordan: Yeah. Mark: Wow! Jordan: So this is like a big huge change. Now, the reason that the changes were so dramatic were in part because he had a lot of work he could do. Everybody’s got a lot of work they can do not all of it looks that dramatic. A lot of the guys that we get here are really successful in every area of their lives save for maybe one or two. And we get…we routinely get people in here like Special Forces. We had SEAL Team 6 guys come in. We had Green Berets, the Army detachment come in. A bunch of those guys. We had a bunch of intelligence agents from Central Intelligence as well as the other agencies with three-letter acronyms both from the US and other countries and we get a lot of really smart people that are like a hell of a lot smarter than me that are really good at just about everything. But they realize that training in an area specific to this which is very rare, very hard to come by, and very, very high leverage, can put them from the 95th, 96th percentile into the 99th percentile. Does that make sense? Mark: It totally makes sense. I don’t understand how these tough guys like SEAL 6 type people buy in. Jordan: Yeah, you know what? I’ve thought about that and here’s why. Cause I’ve asked then straight out. I was like “what’s the deal?” Because I get these guys who have crappy mindsets that are like “I don’t really need this, I’ve got a business selling crap on Amazon!” And they’re like, their ego is out of control. And yet, here’s a guy or set of guys that has been through the worst that the United States military establishment has to offer in terms of making you a harass and really, really, good at everything. Right? And very elite skill sets. And

here’s the answer. Once you get through that trial by fire, if you are a high performer, it doesn’t mean military or otherwise, if you’re a very high value performer, you realize that high value training like what we do and like any high level training any organization does is an opportunity and an honor and it’s something that you should seize immediately. People who are medium to low performers, they look at training as something that people have to do when they’re not good enough. Mark: Right. Jordan: And that’s a major difference in how people view learning opportunities, namely, hands on training. In the military, if you get volunteered or the option to volunteer for a lot of training, it means that they have faith that you’re smart enough or capable enough to learn it, put it to good use, and become a further higher asset value for the military. If you’re a schmuck that thinks that you’ve got to prove something to the world because “I’m an entrepreneur!” and there’s tons of those guys out there now. Or you’re just a mid-level organizational guy and men especially have a problem with this just cause their egos are friggin’ outta control. You will look at training and go “Oh my God! I don’t want anybody to think I need this because it says something about my identity that I don’t like and… Mark: Yeah! That’s interesting because you’ve got ego in check, in a way, to go into a program…because, I don’t think this is really the case…but you’re kinda saying “I’m not charming enough, right? I need the Art of Charm.” But it’s really not that at all… Jordan: No. Mark: No. Yeah... Jordan: It isn’t…It’s because guys who have insecurities around this area or in any area that tend to be kinda major, they’re picturing this as like “I don’t want to be in a room full of guys that tie their shoe laces together,” right? “and have tape on their glasses,” whereas super high performers which are actually who we screen into the program here at AoC, these are guys that go, “Wow, there’s something definitely…that I can definitely learn from this,” having listened to the show, having looked at the curriculum, they realize that it’s not going to be like that and even if it were, it’s tailored and they’ve read that and they’ve paid attention so they know they’re gonna get plenty out of it and they don’t have to go…it doesn’t say something about themselves. Like if I were selling mountain wilderness training… Mark: Right.

Jordan: … and I said “Hey Mark, you wanna take this mountain wilderness training class?” and say, you’re a really an outdoors-y guy, I don’t know if you are or not. You’d be like “Wow, that looks awesome! I’m gonna learn how to track animals, and build shelter in increment weather, I mean, this sounds really cool! Let’s pretend that is remotely interesting to you... Mark: Right. Jordan: You would jump at the chance because it doesn’t mean anything, even if the read-out were “You don’t know anything about surviving in the wilderness,” you might be like “Yeah that’s true…so what?”. But as a man, if it’s like well you you know your social skills could use some work. Now, it’s like “Oh wait this is a sensitive area like my ego goes kicking in... Mark: [laughs] Right. Jordan: He says “I don’t wanna need help in this area, so what i’m gonna do is resist,” and what resistance looks like is either ego says, “I don’t need this, this looks stupid, I’m above it, it looks like a scam.” There’s a million different things that losers mindsets, and I’m not saying people who have these mindsets are losers, I’m just saying that it can make you one, Mark: Right. Jordan: People who have losing mindsets will do that. They’re fixed mindsets, they’re losing mindsets and they’ll do that. People do this in their relationships, they do this in their business, they do it all the time. I’m sure you’ve got friends, who in their relationships Mark: both with their significant other and with their friends, they’re never wrong, everybody else is. Mark: No, I definitely have some friends like that. Jordan: Yeah, how are their relationships? Weak? If not non-existent, right? Mark: Yeah, I mean, they’re not enjoyable to be around, right? You know, the one-upper is tough to be around. Jordan: Yeah. Mark: The person that is never asking you a question. You’re out to dinner with a couple and they’re just going on and on and on about themselves and like “okay,” you know? It’s very interesting how these dynamics kinda play out not just in business but in your life.

Jordan: Exactly. Mark: So, let’s kind of talk about you, Jordan. Personally. Are you married? Jordan: No, I have…I live with my girlfriend. So ask me in six months. Mark: Oh my gosh. Okay. Jordan: Okay. Mark: So what does your girlfriend think of this and is she threatened at all? Jordan: No. Mark: Because you’re like the wizard. You’re gonna go in any situation and in some respects…I’m not gonna say it’s from like a manipulative point of view but I couldn’t see you in a social situation or a business situation where you would be uncomfortable and so it’s almost like you have that charisma. You have that sort of magnetism that I could see that you’d have to be a pretty confident girlfriend or spouse to live with you. Am I right? Jordan: Yeah, I mean, she’s great and she’s…I had certain problems dating and here’s what I learned. Some women were really attracted to the fact that I had this great business. Some women were really attracted to this…just me as a person in general. But then when it came time for sort of the rubber to meet the road, they were like, “well, I don’t know how I feel about all of this. And that sort of became a manifestation of their insecurities. And I’m not gonna not do Art of Charm because somebody else feels threatened by it. That’s just not gonna happen. Mark: Right. Right. Jordan: So I’ve terminated a lot of those relationships. Now, Jenny, who I live with now, she started off by being a fan of the show and listened to it for years before we even met or started talking and she sent her brother through AoC. So he graduated from the program. A year and change later, I met her. So she already knew everything about the program from the inside out. She knew a lot about me and we started hanging out and she was totally comfortable with it cause she’s also very self-aware. And the other thing is she’s not threatened by it because I’m not trying to sit here and trade up. It’s very hard to find great people to have in your life, let alone a great partner to spend your life with and have babies with. So I’m not exactly trying to be back on the market. That

process is a huge pain for people who…it’s a pain for two types of people, people who are really bad at it and people who are really good at it. Right? Mark: Right. Jordan: If you’re bad at it, you find there’s just no options, nothing works out. When you’re really good at it, the problem is finding somebody who is going to be a good fit for you given the amount of choices that you have. Mark: Yeah. Yeah. Is AoC now like Harvard in the sense that this virtual cycle? So you’ve got all of these very high level CEO types, right? They’re leaders. They’ve got it together, Jordan. And you’re putting them into a room, they’re 95%, they just want to get to that 98, 99% but they’re all there and they’re all mastering the art of networking. They’re all networking with each other. Kind of like you go to Harvard and you come out and it’s like, “well, these people are gonna be successful anyways.” And so now, it’s like…it’s Harvard. Jordan: As much as I’d love to attribute a bunch of awesome branding like “Art of Charm the Harvard of everything!” I’m not gonna do that cause it seems really self congratulatory to do that. But I will tell you this. Recently somebody posted on our alumni board, which is super super active. I mean there’s 800+ guys on there and they’re posting everyday. Somebody said, “I hate my job. My boss just took credit for this massive project. What do I do? Advice please.” And there was a bunch of advice and one of the guys said, “Look, you’ve mentioned things about your job before. Why are you still there?” And he said, “good point. I’m going to resign. I hate multiple things about this job and if I’ve learned anything about AoC it’s not to put up with that and that I have options. And within two hours he had a job offer from another person’s company because that person was also an AoC grad and he said, “Oh, what do you do?” And he’s like…”oh…I…” I can’t remember and I also don’t want to out anybody cause it is kind of a specific-ish job. And the person said “I do this, and this, and this.” And he said, “send me your resume.” Within two hours, not a job offer. Sorry. An interview offer that turned into a job. And that’s huge. Mark: No, it’s like your creating your own über network of these high performing guys. It’s just men. It’s not women. Jordan: Yeah. I mean we train women. The show has tons of stuff for women. We do a lot of shows (incomprehensible) and we have female coaches and coaches that teach a lot of women. But we don’t have the women going through the same program as the guys in part because it’s a residential program… Mark: Right.

Jordan: We don’t wanna mix those things cause it’s the liability, and you know…and comfort factor…but also because look. We’re speaking about vulnerability and Brené Brown. We’ve got a lot of guys coming in that have to dig through a lot of emotional doo doo to get down to the root cause of certain things that are causing them to sabotage themselves sometimes. Mark: Yeah. Jordan: And it’s really hard to get guys to do that in general. So imagine trying to do it when there’s a female in the room. We’re trying to deprogram your ego and now you’ve got…now you’re worried about being judged by an attractive girl sitting in the for…I mean we couldn’t shoot ourselves in the foot any more than we would by having a mixed group of people. So whenever…It’s funny cause whenever I see coaches and stuff like, “oh I do this in a big mixed group.” Two things occur to me. One, wow, this must be a very enlightened group that’s not dealing with very sensitive issues or you don’t know what the hell you’re doing. Mark: Right. Jordan: I’m sure it’s the latter. Mark: You know what’s interesting, I’ve got a fifteen year old son. And you remember what you were like when you were fifteen. The insecurity and high school. Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. Cause I had that til I was friggin’ 25. Yeah. I remember it really well. Mark: Yeah. So, if I say to Noah, “hey, call Uncle Jordan.” [laughs] or “start listening to the podcast,” or whatever it is like what advice do you give parents? What advice do you give teenagers to kind of get past that piece in life? I mean this is like the toughest time, socially and then you go in with it into twenties. You go in the business world with all this kind of high school type baggage. How do you…can we cut it off? Can we shortcut it, Jordan? Jordan: Yeah. The problem is that it’s not like “here’s a quick piece of advice that’s gonna serve you well.” Mark: Yeah. Yeah. It’s not. Is it? Jordan: It’s a process. And so, luckily, I get this question all the time. So now we have tons of audio for people that are just like wanting the tactics and we call it The Toolbox. And it’s things like “Making Friends in a New Town,” “Non Verbal Communication,” “Banter and Small Talk,” and I don’t want to throw to many links

around cause it’s obnoxious but its at the ArtofCharm.com/Toolbox, if you want to link to that or send people there, that would be… Mark: Yeah. I’ll definitely send people there. Jordan: And so I’m just gonna say “listen to this… (incomprehensible)” What happens is that you start to apply these little things here and there like “Oh, I’m gonna change my body language by making good nonverbal communication part of my habits.” “Oh, I’m gonna change the way that I interact with people. I’m gonna make the extra effort to say hello and good morning to this many people per day.” “Oh, I’m gonna have conversations and use these follow up questions.” “I’m gonna have an event that’s really small to see if I can solidify some friendships.” Those types of things, those little tiny steps, they all build on each other. And over time, you will see that your kids or when kids ride in and they’ll say, “Look, I’m gonna apply these things in six months, eight months, a year, year and a half, whatever.” And the small victories, they result in self-trust. And what that kind of is, is just self-confidence. So, what it means if you say, “Look, I’m going to have better nonverbal communication.” And you do that and it works. People start reacting to you and treating you differently and when they do, you start to look at yourself differently. And so you might say, “Oh, you know what? I could have a dinner party. I’m gonna invite all these people I just met!” And a lot of them say yes and they come over and they have a good time. And you go, “Wow!” And you start to look at yourself differently not as “Oh, I’m an introvert and I’m just gonna sit home tonight.” You go, “Look, I’ve got a lot of friends and I invited them over and they had fun and they wanna do it again.” You start to look at yourself in a different way and other people start to look at you in that way too and it’s a virtuous cycle, so it takes a long time and it takes a little bit of initiative on our part as if we are just starting to learn this stuff. But it’s very very possible and the big sort of meta lesson from that is “Holy cow, you can change your station in life pretty much in any area you want.” So once you start doing that stuff, maybe socially. You start to go “Oh, maybe I should pick up a fitness hobby, I never thought I could learn rock climbing ‘cause I never thought of myself as “that guy” but I’m gonna give it a shot,” and now you’ve got a social circle of people that are open minded and they’ll take you there, and they’ll teach you that. So all these things become reinforcing and before you know it, a couple of years have gone by and you don’t even recognise the old you. Mark: It’s really interesting. Jordan: Part of growth. And the thing is everybody does this, we’re all growing in some way, some of us just go downhill. Right? We become “I’m a workaholic, I’m in bad shape now, I’m angry at life. How did I get in this marriage? I hate my

family.” I mean there’s people that we know, that are like that. Right? And there’s other people that grow into wonderful people, and it takes ten years. Because there’s maybe not a deliberate process there. Maybe it just takes a really long time, but when you’re focusing on little metrics and you’ve got little goals and you’ve got specific goals, you start in their social and nature. For example with the AoC stuff, they come a lot faster and when they do, you realize “Holy crap, if I change this much in a couple of years, the sky’s the limit!” and that’s a great thing for a kid or an adult to realise. Mark: Yeah! It’s really kind of a very mind-expanding, very growth oriented. Jordan, I think, you’ve got too big of a market. [laughs] Jordan: And it’s cool! Mark: Yeah, there’s a reason you’re podcast is so big. It’s such a big, powerful, type of unique offering. I don’t know of anyone else who’s kinda doing this in a non-manipulative way. Do you? Jordan: No, because it’s much easier to teach these types of social tactics in a way that, it sounds so insulting but you know what, I don’t care. It’s kind of like the Neanderthal method where their like “I could teach people this really complicated, non-manipulative, high-value way to do it, but that’s really hard. “Why don’t I just make a bunch of bold promises based on a bunch of BS. That’s easier to make money online.” So, we started this as a hobby. So we didn’t care about making money we came up with a method that was really effective, that we were using, that we were teaching, and that was great. Now that it’s a business, the temptation is no longer really there because now we know that our method is actually better than the whole like “See these three weird tricks to get people to love you!” like that’s a bunch of baloney. I’d feel like such a clown, marketing anything like that. So we just don’t and we don’t have to, but I think had we started the show as a business from day 1, I would be up here, well first of all you wouldn’t have even invited me but if you did, I would’ve up here like “Buy my e-book for $39.95.” Mark: Right. Jordan: You’d be hearing that kind of crap because it’s so much easier to sell things like that to stupid people than it is to sell something that is really, really, important, powerful, but takes a long time and that only smart people would want. Mark: Yeah it’s really fascinating and it’s amazing Jordan. Look, I said in the beginning you’re a big deal! You know it’s funny, I’m saying as a boy I wish I

would’ve though of that. I don’t know emotionally, if I could even do it, honestly. Because I think you have to be that kind of person that there’s a certain type of, I’ll say, über confidence and yet on the other end of the spectrum having your ego in check to be able to do this. Right? There’s like a humility in it and yet a certain growth mindset. You have to be a very unique person to be bale to do this, I think, to teach it, I mean, and not go through it. Jordan: Yeah, you know, I would love to agree with that but the truth is, I was a super quiet, super nerdy, introvert, I still am an introvert, I don’t know if that changes. And you know, I had a tough time as a kid, and so I focused on working on a lot of these skills. And I was always good at observing other people. So maybe that helps from the teaching standpoint. Mark: Sure. Jordan: To say like “I’ve always been very self-aware.” that’s just a load of garbage. I mean even today at lunch my girlfriend, Jenny, she was like “You know, you do this, and this, and this, and I don’t know if you know it,” and I was like “Oh my God, you’re totally right.” And she’s like “Yeah, nobody else is ever going to tell you this.” ‘cause it was like an uncomfortable truth. Mark: Sure. Jordan: And I would say to her, but it’s actually so annoying to explain the backstory that it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to do so. But basically, was like “Here’s a really annoying thing about your personality, that you should really change.” and I’m thinking “I’ve been teaching this stuff for 9 years and I never noticed.” Mark: *laughs* Jordan: And you know, it’s a constant process. And of course, it sucks because my ego, it’s not gone, my ego says “Well yeah, you’re annoying.” That’s what my child ego brain wants to say. But what I know is good for me is to go “God, you’re probably right. Please remind me when I do this. It’s a bad habit, I’ve gotta break it, I’ve gotta replace it with something else. I really don’t wanna deal with this truth,” But you have to otherwise you’re not gonna get any better. I don’t wanna be with somebody who’s like “You’re perfect and there’s nothing that could be changed,” ‘cause that’s a bunch of B.S., I think everybody knows that. Mark: Yeah! Jordan: It’s tough, it’s mostly about sort of intercepting the ego, it’s not about getting rid of it. If there’s a way to get rid of it, I don’t know what it is, I don’t even

know if I want to. But it’s about intercepting it so that it doesn’t take over and throw a freaking temper tantrum when there’s a lesson you could learn instead. Mark: Do you meditate? Jordan: You know it’s funny, I do and I have since high school. But I took so many breaks because I was like “This doesn’t do anything.” But really, it does it helps you make those little interceptions, it helps you smack that ball out in the air when you’re like “I’m gonna throw a fit” and like wait, no. That’s what you wanna do to gut knee-jerk reaction, try something else instead. That’s a skill set you need to practice, and I think a lot of people who meditate they do that really well. Mark: Yeah, I’ve got the Headspace app and I love it. And I find myself, catching myself, I have that kinda similar social interaction with my wife and then I kinda back up and like “Oh, wait a second, why am I being so defensive?” Right? I listen to the thoughts. If those thoughts are actually another person, like that’s person crazy! They’re flip-flopping everywhere! They’re all over the place! Like why would I even listen to that person? Do you ever feel like that? Jordan: Well, yeah. In fact, I just did a video about how we always, as humans, we accept our thoughts as true, even thought there’s no reason to do so whatsoever. And we do this to our emotions too. But the video that I did was it’s we accept our thoughts as true. And it sucks ‘cause sometimes those thoughts are just mood-dependent. I mean, Mark, you’ve probably woken up one day and been like “I’m never gonna be successful at whatever thing you’re trying to do, racquetball,” But it’s like who says, your dumb brain that woke up on the wrong side of the bed and hasn’t had coffee yet? That brain doesn’t know anything! Mark: Yeah! Jordan: That brain is just in a bad mood! Why would you listen? If you knocked on my door, and you were like “Hey Jordan! You ready to go skiing?” and I was like “You’re never going to be good at skiing!” You’d be like “What a jerk face. I’m never hanging out with Jordan again. That guy sucks!” Mark: Right. Jordan: If you do it to your own brain, you’re just like “Yes, this must be true.” If you talk to your friends the way that you talk to yourself, you wouldn’t have any friends. Mark: It’s so true! It’s absolutely true! I just had a call the other day with a client and he was just really hard on himself and really down on himself. There was nothing based in reality.

Jordan: No. Mark: Yeah! Jordan: Seldom is. So we need to question our thoughts, we need to question everybody’s thoughts and everybody’s opinions but we especially need to question our own thoughts, which we just never do. And once I started questioning my own thoughts, it would be like “Well, you know, I can’t really do this, or I don’t think I should do that,” and it’s always just “Wait, why?” “Oh because of this and this and well that’s not really true.” Once you start to rationally… Many of our negative thoughts, and I just don’t mean like “Be positive all the time!” I just mean thoughts that are maybe not serving us really well. Mark: Right. Jordan: A lot of these things just don’t hold up to intellectual, irrational, scrutiny at all. Mark: Yeah! Jordan: But they just never get that far because we just believe it ‘cause it’s in our brain. That little voice in our head we just think that it’s not lying to us because it is us. When really it’s… And this is getting all “whoo whoo”. But really, just basically, don’t believe the voice in your own head, it’s just as wrong as everything else. You might as well be watching T.V. Mark: Yeah, no, it’s so true. Well Jordan, we’re at that time of the podcast now. I’m gonna skip the Best Passive Income Model schtick because I don’t really think it applies in this. You’ve been a real estate investor for a while… Jordan: No, no, no. Mark: So let’s just skip that. Let’s just go straight to the meat, so Jordan, I’m gonna put you on the spot, I’m going to ask you for your tip of the week, a website, a resource, a book, something actionable. And you’ve given us tons of actionable things in the podcast, but something actionable where the best passive income model listeners can go to right now. Improve their businesses, improve their lives, what do you got? Jordan: Yeah, you know, it’s funny, people always go “How do you get so many things done?” ‘cause I am kind of like ultra productive. Mark: Uh huh.

Jordan: The truth is I’ve got a calendar I follow religiously and it’s booked up a few days in advance and it’s booked up in fifteen-minute blocks. And i’ll mean that every task is fifteen minutes, but literally just get iCal or BusyCal or Google Calendar and sync it across all your devices so that every computer has it. And it can be like “Check your credit cards, 8:15 A.M. Check your credit card statement, make sure nobody is stealing from you.” “8:15, Put the bike on the back of the car. 8:30 - 10:30 go for a really long bike ride,” “Shower in the next half hour after that, eat after that, do a bunch of interviews and set a block, then film a video, then take out the garbage, then, you know, make dinner with Jenny. That stuff has to be in there and the reason that the exercise has to be in there is ‘cause if it’s not, you won’t do it, or you’ll have to skip other important things to do it, which is not good ‘cause then you’re in behind other stuff. So you treat exercise like a business meeting, you put everything in your calendar. See I used to do the following: “Oh yeah, I’ve only got three things to do tomorrow, I’ll remember them!” Well I remember them, and they don’t get done. Mark: [laughs] Right. Jordan: Because I don’t start doing anything until I kinda get motivated to do stuff at 2 PM or whatever. And you know who you are, you self-employed people. And then it’s like it’s five and you’re kinda tired and you’re like “Screw it, I’m hungry,” and then you go to the gym and you make dinner and that’s the end of the day. And you’re like “I barely did anything!” If you plan the whole day, you don’t have any decision fixating behind deciding what to do next. Mark: Oh yeah, I love this tip. In fact, I do this and the only reason I do it is my mentor does the exact same thing and taught me how to do it. This is great. Jordan: I’m not even saying like you have to do everything that’s in there. If something else comes up, you’re gonna have to move stuff but once things are in blocks, like this video is gonna take an hour, you can’t just delete it, you gotta to move it. And then you realise that “Oh my God, all this stuff backs up like crazy.” Once you start moving things to Tuesday, and Wednesday, and Thursday, and Friday and then you realize you gotta work all weekend because you’re shoveling blocks around, you’re not just like “Alright it’s Saturday, I’ve been slacking off for three days, I gotta do these eighteen things,” those aren’t getting done. If they’re slotted in time blocks on the calendar, you realize how much time you need. Mark: Yeah, no, it’s so true. You got the Parkinson’s law working for you. Because dealing in 15 minutes to get that piece done before you get the next piece. You get it done in 15 minutes, if you give yourself a half hour, it will take a half hour. Right?

Jordan: Yeah, you fill it up. Mark: Yeah, work expands to the time allotted. So this has been a phenomenal podcast interview. So I wanna thank you, Jordan Harbinger, because my tip of the week is go to the artofcharm.com and for crying out loud, at the very least go to the resource page that I’ll be linking to as well, but you know, there’s very few interviews I’ve done, where I kinda think this applies to all my listeners. Right? I think this really applies to all my listeners. Would you agree? Even the female listeners, Jordan. Jordan: Oh yeah, of course, I mean, productivity, social skills, these aren’t things that are only for guys. Mark: This has been fantastic, and clearly there’s a reason why you’ve got one of the top podcasts in the world. And I really, really, respect and admire what you’re been doing, what you’ve done and just wanna thank you again for being on the Best Passive Income Model podcast. And I wanna remind the listeners that the only way I’m gonna get the quality of guests like a Jordan Harbinger from the ArtofCharm.com, is if you subscribe, rate and review the podcast. In fact, if you do so, and you send me a screenshot to [email protected], I will send you for free the Passive Income Launch Kit. So please do that, also go to TheLandGeek.com and download for free the Passive Income Blueprint, get the e-book “How to Avoid the 3 Fatal Land Buying Mistakes”, and of course get this always informative and engaging podcast delivered each week to your e-mail inbox. This is Mark Podolsky, the Land Geek. Jordan Harbinger, the artofcharm.com. Thanks again, we’ll see everybody next time. Jordan: Alright, thank you Announcer: Thank you for listening to another episode of the Best Passive Income Model podcast. Join us next time for more business insights, strategies, and helpful tips that will help you grow your passive income through land investing. Stay connected to Mark Podolsky, the Land Geek, on Facebook at Facebook.com/TheLandGeek.