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AEM Performance Electronics Forum UNIVERSAL EMS => EMS-4 Universal Standalone => Topic started by: ing.programing on October 26, 2012, 02:19:36 PM

Title: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on October 26, 2012, 02:19:36 PM Q uote from : ing.program ing on May 09, 2013, 01:38:35 PM So, just to wrap up this se tup for those VW guys inte re ste d on the EMS4: This was on an e arly m k 4 vw which m e ans that the throttle is drive by cable and the cluste r (tacho) is not C AN bus. Batte ry re locate d to the trunk . Crank: - Start out with the 60-2 C R K VR 1 C AM VR 4 C YL C O P SEQ base cal provide d by AEM wizard – In the advance d pick up tab, turn C am Mag O FF and C am hall/rising e dge O N. - C rank Mag – Falling e dge O N. - C rank se nsor polarity ne e ds to be inve rte d – I have the rounde d gre y plug on the crank se nsor (P/N 06A906433C ). Se nsor polarity is pin1 = pos, pin2 = ne g, pin1 = se nsor shie ld. You want to conne ct Pin 1 to white , Pin 2 to gre e n and Pin 3 to shie ld. R e fe r to post #8. Cam: - C am Se nsor is a Hall se nsor (P/N 0 232 101 031) so the re is only one way to conne ct it. Pin1 = +, Pin2 = signal, Pin3 = -. - C am Se nsor whe e l ne e ds to be m odifie d, at le ast tooth #3 ne e ds to be re m ove d, re fe r to post #25 and pre vious. - Ignition ne e ds to be synce d (using tim ing light while crank ing and the n confirm at idle ), in m y case I e nde d with an Ignition Sync Value of ###, confirm e d at 5K rpm and the re is no drift. Tacho: -

GPIO conne cte d to pin ### on cluste r gre e n plug It ne e ds a pull-up re sistor to 5v (vcc), a 5k ohm did the trick for m e . It wants to se e 4 short pulse s pe r cycle (two e ve nly se parate d spik e s on the tacho table ).

TPS: - I’m using an O EM obd1 tps, 3 wire straight forward installation/calibration. Use d the wizard but had to adjust the value s m anually to avoid tps e rrors. Coolant Temp: - I have a m e chanical C oolant te m p gauge so it was e asy to cre ate the te m p/voltage table for the O EM se nsor, at le ast for m y ope rational range (it doe sn’t ge t anything colde r than 60de g he re in PR ), the re st I just e x trapolate d line arly. VSS: -

I just tappe d on the spe e dom e te r signal wire on cluste r gre e n plug pin###. I e nde d up with a calibration value of 156 and it is spot on!

O2: - Using AEM W BFS De vice , installe d as pe r instructions, use d the wizard which got it ve ry close (EMS4 was offse t by about 0.3 AFR com pare d to gauge displaye d value ). - In m y case I se le cte d the e ntire O 2 se nsor calibration table and hit + a couple of tim e s and pe rfe ct! Now the value s shown on the gauge m atch e x actly with EC U displaye d value s. Injectors: -

Ge ne sis II 500cc Bate ry Voltage O ffse t Value s:

Volts/m s: 6/2.55, 7/2.55, 8/2.12, 9/1.63, 10/1.27, 11/1.07, 12/0.93, 13/078, 14/0.62, 15/0.53, 16/0.44 Ignition: http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=29935.0

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- I’m using AEM 4 channe l coil drive r with 4 MSD Blaste r C oils - MSD Blaste r C oils are on the wizard but you want to go to the Dwe ll table and m ak e it a flat line at 3.0m s. W izard Dwe ll se tting for the se coils is wrong and could ove rhe at your drive r/coils. I will be updating this post with the cluste r pin #s and Ign Sync Value as we ll as the Idle Valve Se tup (valve is on its way), I will be using a Bosch 2-wire PW M valve P/N: 0280140516, if som e one have any se tup info on this k ind of valve I would re ally appre ciate your input. I will also upload a base cal to m ak e it e ve n e asie r for the VW guys. C he e rs! 8-)

Hi Folks, I will be installing an EMS4 on a VW mk4 2.0L 8v (AEG code) engine. It is a 60-2 VR Crank wheel and a 4 tooth (two big/two small) cam wheel Hall. For base map I’m using the 60-2 crank vr with 1 vr cam. For my case I just changed the cam configuration from cam mag for cam hall rising, Crank Tooth Control table is set for 24 edges (as per base map). Attached is a picture of how this crank/cam pattern will look like. Here is my question: Based on the picture this is what I would guess: Fuel Teeth Spark Teeth Wheel Teeth Sync Teeth Sync Cam Count Sync Error Reset

24 24 24 OFF -

Missing MX Sync Test MX Time Sync Teeth Sync Error Reset

2 57 25 3 3

Does the Sync Teeth and Sync Error Reset values make sense for this setup. Do I have to turn OFF the Sync Cam Count if using MX sync? If I turn Sync Cam Count OFF it will ignore the Sync Teeth and Sync Error Reset values on the uper table and only use the values of the lower table (MX). Please shed some light. Thank you. Jose Santana Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: NS on October 26, 2012, 04:29:46 PM Is that your own scope trace or did you get it somewhere? Where was the crank signal picked up from? I'd expect to see a sine wave signal coming out of a VR sensor, not a square wave. This will be important as the EMS-4 requires that VR signals be rising edge and most OE VR sensors are setup to be falling edge thus requiring that the signal be inverted. http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=29935.0

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The rising edge on the second long cam tooth is very very close to the missing tooth area of the crank and this might be a problem. Is there any way you can advance the cam wheel slightly? Or re-scope the signals and move the cam signal up closer to the crank signal so we can see exactly where that rising edge occurs. What would work the best is setting Sync Teeth to 3 and trigger off the cam's rising edge (Cam HALL Rising Edge ON). This gives you 3 cam teeth in one rev and 1 cam tooth in the next rev and the EMS will sync off the set of 3 cam teeth. If the rising edge of the second long cam tooth occurs during the missing tooth area of the crank, the EMS will not sync correctly. Yes, turn Sync Cam Count off when using Sync MX. Turning Sync Cam Count off does not ignore the Sync Teeth option. You may have a one or two count for Sync Error when the engine is running as it sees the right amount of cam teeth (3) in one rev but not the right amount in the next rev. Set Sync Error Reset to be slightly above your normal Sync Error count. For example, if your normal Sync Error count is 1, we'll usually set Sync Error Reset to 2. For testing, you can set it to 5 and then adjust it as necessary. Stat Sync will turn off when you get your Sync Error Reset value. MX Time may need adjusting - it's different for every application. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on October 27, 2012, 11:45:49 AM NS, thank you for the fast response. No, that is not my scope, that is something I found on the web but is an actual representation of the pattern. I will have to verify if the crank is raising or falling but that I will figure out. As you are saying, the second long tooth is very close to the mising tooth, the problem is that the wheel is fixed to the cam sprocket, I guess I could use an adjustable cam sprocket to advance it a bit. The other option would be to machine the second long tooth out so that I get two edges on one rev and one on the other, what would you recommend? For the Sync Teeth, I was just confused because the manual show it on the Sync setup screen (page 103 and 107) with two different definitions and I thought it was two independent values (which was not making sense for me) but is just one then. The Sync teeth definition will change based on the sync strategy used right? For the MX Time, what is that value related to? Is that something I can physically measure or calculate? Thank you. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: NS on October 29, 2012, 04:06:59 PM Yes, according to the scope trace you posted, the rising edge of the second long cam tooth is very close to the missing teeth zone. Either advancing the cam wheel or removing that tooth entirely will work. The other thing to consider is that that scope trace shows a square wave crank signal which we know should be a sine wave and it'll either have a rising or falling trigger edge. It http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=29935.0

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could be possible that the rising cam edge is in fact far enough ahead of the last crank trigger edge to not be a problem but we won't know that until you scope the signals on the engine you're physically working with. Sync Teeth is always the number of cam teeth the EMS is looking to sync off of. You'll notice that in the examples for both setups on pages 103 & 107 that there is only one cam tooth thus Sync Teeth is 1 in both instances. MX Time is a more or less a window that compares current tooth time with previous tooth times to try and determine if and where missing teeth are occuring. Unfortunately there isn't any kind of hard rule that says it should be this or that if you have a certain pattern. I think the missing tooth base cals are set at 25%. If your MX Sync Count parameter is always changing (it should be constant) then try adjusting your MX Time up in 5% increments. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on October 31, 2012, 09:45:08 PM NS, I found this in a vw forum and this is how it actually looks like taken from the actual sensors output signal (a little noisy). Im looking for something better but however, this tells the story. What do you think? Thank you. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: NS on November 01, 2012, 01:42:29 PM Nice find. As I had figured, the crank signal is a falling edge wave so you'll need to invert the sensor polarity. Just swap + for - and - for +. Unfortunately I think that rising cam edge might be a problem. We ran into a similar situation with an EJ25 Subaru where the cam tooth would start out very close to the missing tooth section of the crank but then the 2-mile long timing belt would warm up and stretch enough to move the cam tooth into the missing tooth section at which point the EMS would lose sync and the engine would stop running. We wound up ignoring the cam altogether and just syncing off the crank which means running semi-sequential fueling and waste spark ignition. I'd seriously consider either moving the cam forward slightly or eliminating that tooth altogether. Or you ignore the cam and just sync off the crank but that'll mean double pulsing the injectors and running waste spark. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on November 01, 2012, 03:20:10 PM Excellent, I will remove the second cam long tooth and will proceed as follows (just to recap): - Crank VR wiring shall be inverted, Cam Hall normal wiring. Trigger Configuration: Crank MAG Rising Edge Cam HALL Rising Edge

ON ON

Crank Tooth Control Table 544445444454444544445444454444544445444454444544445444454433 (using http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=29935.0

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the 24 fuel teeth approach) Fuel Teeth Spark Teeth Wheel Teeth Sync Cam Count

24 24 24 OFF

Missing MX Sync Test MX Time constant) Sync Teeth Sync Error Reset

2 57 25 (increase in 5% steps until MX Sync Count is 2 5 (Adjust as necessary)

Any other suggestion or recommendation? Thank you for all your support, I really appreciate it. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: NS on November 01, 2012, 04:50:39 PM The crank mag/vr trigger option that you need to use is actually Crank MAG Falling Edge - not rising edge. There's a VR-to-square wave converter chip in the EMS-4 and it can only accept a rising edge input BUT it outputs a falling edge square wave where the sine wave crosses zero going from negative to positive. See pages 29-32 of the Install/Tuning Guide for more details. Also, Sync Cam Count off but Sync MX on. Really, all you should have to do is start with the 60-2 CRK VR 1 CAM VR 4 CYL COP SEQ base cal, change the cam trigger to Hall rising (turn mag options off) and set Sync Teeth to 2. If you haven't already, I'd think about using a pull down resistor on the crank sensor wiring. The internal VR filtering is minimal so an external filter is sometimes necessary. It's best to use an oscilloscope to quantify how much noise (if any) you actually have but you can also just start out with something like a 10kohm resistor and go down in resistance until any noise issues go away. There are a few threads with more details on this in the FAQ/DIY thread. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on November 02, 2012, 11:16:55 AM Got it! Thank you lots! :-) Now, I have another question on the wiring of the factory VR sensor. The sensor has its own pigtail and plug (refer to picture attached). The plug has 3 pins, (pos)+, (neg)- and pigtail shield (please refer to attached diagram). I will be using the AEM 96” harness, so the question is what should I do with the shield (pin 1 of plug)? I have 4 things on my mind: -

Strand the AEM harness shield at the end and connect it to pin 1 of plug

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- Not to use pin 1 (that would leave about one feet of sensor pigtail with no shielding) - Wire pin 1 to ground (to the block?) - Cut the pigtail close to the sensor and just use the 2 wires. What do you think/recommend? Thank you. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: NS on November 05, 2012, 03:04:33 PM I'd try and connect the sensor shield drain to the harness drain if possible. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on November 13, 2012, 11:50:51 AM I just found out that the factory cam (hall) sensor receive 5v. I don’t know if it will work well with 12v but I have one old spare sensor that I can use for testing. If it was the case it malfunction or gets fried on 12v, what would be the workaround to supply 5v? Can I source it from the VCC (pin 36)? Just wondering. Thank you. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: NS on November 13, 2012, 01:03:03 PM Yes, that's exactly what that circuit's meant for. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on November 13, 2012, 01:43:49 PM Excellent, thank you! Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on November 28, 2012, 03:40:17 PM What is the last REV/MOD of the EMS? Thank you. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: NS on November 28, 2012, 04:17:53 PM Rev C Mod D Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on December 26, 2012, 12:45:11 PM An update! just ordered: ems4 + 96" harness + iat sensor + WBFS + boost solenoid + 4ch coil driver + 3.5bar map. Will start installation as soon as I get http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=29935.0

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everything. Right now ready to pull the oem cam out and replace with an AT270 cam with modified cam tooth wheel. Attached pic of the patient. Will keep you updated on the progress. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on January 06, 2013, 04:56:36 PM Ok, I need some advice. After replacing the cam/valve seals/lifters and put everything back together, I decided to physically look at the cam/crank pattern and compare with what I previously posted. By placing the engine on its timing marks and slowly rotating and observing the sensors/wheels positions, what I previously posted is in fact the exact signal pattern for this engine but with one discrepancy, please refer to the attached diagram. With the engine at TDC for cylinder 1 (compression stroke), the crank sensor is on top of the 14th tooth (if counting the two missing as 0 and 1 it would be the 15th) and the cam is on top of the first small tooth. I wanted to confirm this to be 100% sure of the pattern and how to modify the cam wheel conveniently. Now, here is the question: The EMS want to see the cam sync teeth on the second engine rev right? If that is the case I was thinking that I have two options then: -remove tooth #2 and then sync off the cam falling edge. Sync Teeth [2] -remove all the teeth and just leave tooth #4 and trigger off either cam rising or falling edge. Sync Teeth [1] Please shed some light. Thank you.

Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: PQatPIT on January 07, 2013, 03:25:37 AM AEM trigger decoding system does not care where sync tooth / teeth are. If significant cam signal is decoded on first half after cyl. 1 comp stroke, and option Ignition Sync is correct then it is ok. If significant cam signal is decoded on second half and Ignition sync is correct then this is ok, too. Ignition Sync number goes from 0 to 23,.9999... teeth and every number is just as ok as the next. I would grind away #1, #2 and #3, and use cam tooth #4. Select rising or falling edge based on which ever is farther away from ignition signal falling edge, ie. spark placement. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on January 07, 2013, 09:51:01 AM If I remove all cam teeth and leave #4 which is at the second rev then I leave that value at 0 (Ignition Sync [ 0 ]) ? Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: NS on January 07, 2013, 10:30:38 AM http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=29935.0

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If you have one cam tooth then Sync Teeth would be 1. Possible values for Ignition Sync are 0-Wheel Teeth value (0-23 in this case). The Ignition Sync option is a global coil firing location adjustment. If you want Ignition Sync to be 0 and have timing sync'd at 0 deg TDC then the cam/sync tooth needs to occur 75 deg BTDC. But really, cam/sync tooth can occur any where and the timing will then be correctly sync'd by adjusting the Ignition Sync value. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on January 07, 2013, 01:13:27 PM Ok!!! It all make sense to me now! This is the value you are changing when using the Ignition Timing Sync Wizard. The initial approach was to remove tooth#3 which will absolutely work but, now that I am working on this and have the cam wheel out for grinding, would it be better to leave just one tooth (#4 or #2) or it will make no difference at all, from the high rev / noise vulnerability point of view. What would you recommend if it was your setup? Thank you for the support! :-) Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: NS on January 07, 2013, 01:46:59 PM Q uote from : ing.program ing on January 07, 2013, 01:13:27 PM O k !!! It all m ak e se nse to m e now! This is the value you are changing whe n using the Ignition Tim ing Sync W izard.

Yup, exactly. You got it. Q uote The initial approach was to re m ove tooth#3 which will absolute ly work but, now that I am work ing on this and have the cam whe e l out for grinding, would it be be tte r to le ave just one tooth (#4 or #2) or it will m ak e no diffe re nce at all, from the high re v / noise vulne rability point of vie w. W hat would you re com m e nd if it was your se tup?

There's an old saying that applies here.... it's six of one and half dozen of another. Or, it's the same thing and doens't really matter. I'd say one cam tooth is fine as it's the most simple setup besides no cam teeth but that's a different story. Q uote Thank you for the support! :-)

You're welcome. I'm a former VW guy myself and had a 1.8t MKIV and a MKII with am OBD2 turbo ABA swap. Fun cars. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on January 07, 2013, 02:41:51 PM Q uote from : NS on January 07, 2013, 01:46:59 PM You're we lcom e . I'm a form e r VW guy m yse lf and had a 1.8t MKIV and a MKII with am O BD2 turbo ABA swap. Fun cars.

It is good to know. This is my 3rd vw after two mk3s :-D Cheers!!

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Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on January 21, 2013, 09:20:59 AM So, I started the installation and I have a question (few more to come as I move on). Wiring the AEM 4 channel coil driver (30-2840) using 96” harness. As per instructions and EMS4 manual, the ground connection goes to PWR GND which is a 14 gauge wire and it is hard to crimp the terminal on it since the terminal is too small. I had it crimped on but I can tell that the terminal is incorrectly sized for that specific wire size. Where can I buy these terminals? Spare ones? Bigger ones? Thank you. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on January 21, 2013, 03:10:45 PM At least a part number for those terminals would be of a lot of help! Thank you. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on February 03, 2013, 02:11:47 PM An update, I got the cam wheel modified. I removed teeth 1, 2 and 3 refer to attached pictures. I started the wiring, after wiring both the cam and crank sensor I decided to crank the engine over to see if I get good signal from crank and cam sensors and... GOT SYNC!!!! :-D (see picture attached). Next, complete the wiring of injectors, coils, sensors, sync ignition timing and start the engine is the next milestone. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: NS on February 04, 2013, 11:40:12 AM Q uote from : ing.program ing on January 21, 2013, 09:20:59 AM So, I starte d the installation and I have a que stion (fe w m ore to com e as I m ove on). W iring the AEM 4 channe l coil drive r (30-2840) using 96” harne ss. As pe r instructions and EMS4 m anual, the ground conne ction goe s to PW R GND which is a 14 gauge wire and it is hard to crim p the te rm inal on it since the te rm inal is too sm all. I had it crim pe d on but I can te ll that the te rm inal is incorre ctly size d for that spe cific wire size . W he re can I buy the se te rm inals? Spare one s? Bigge r one s? Thank you.

The ground for the ignitor should NOT connect to the ground in the coil wires bundle. The EMS-4 wiring diagram shows the ground in the -96 harness being an optional ground that does not connect to the ignition. The ignitor should have a good chassis or engine ground that's separate from the EMS grounds. Also, be sure to open an AEM20 workspace when working with an EMS-4. The regular AEM25/Series 2 workspaces won't show all the correct options that an EMS-4 uses. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on February 04, 2013, 12:26:19 PM Q uote from : NS on Fe bruary 04, 2013, 11:40:12 AM The ground for the ignitor should NO T conne ct to the ground in the coil wire s bundle . The EMShttp://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=29935.0

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4 wiring diagram shows the ground in the -96 harne ss be ing an optional ground that doe s not conne ct to the ignition. The ignitor should have a good chassis or e ngine ground that's se parate from the EMS grounds. Also, be sure to ope n an AEM20 work space whe n work ing with an EMS-4. The re gular AEM25/Se rie s 2 work space s won't show all the corre ct options that an EMS-4 use s.

Ok, just to confirm that I understand what you say. The ignitor ground does NOT connect to the PWR GND (black 14 gauge wire on gnd splice A) as stated on the manual. It should be grounded to a separated good chassis or engine block (or cyl head?) ground. PWR GND wire is not used for anything on this particular case? Please confirm. Thank you, I really appreciate your support. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: NS on February 04, 2013, 12:33:53 PM Ugh. Yes, sorry... I see now that pg 23 of manual still says to connect power ground to coils ground which is incorrect. If you refer to the EMS-4 wiring diagram (attached) you'll see that is shows the ground as not being connected to the coils. It was originally setup as the manual shows but this proved to induce noise into the system. Giving the ignition it's own separate ground away from the EMS grounds fixed this. Use a fairly short ground for the ignitor that goes to a good chassis or engine ground. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on February 04, 2013, 01:18:43 PM OK! got it. Thank you. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on March 06, 2013, 03:01:57 PM I think it is time for an update! I got everything installed, timing synced while cranking, and it started on the first attempt! :-D Then I confirmed ignition sync at idle and it was a like 7deg retarded so I advanced it a little and got it dead on the timing mark, tried a different timing value and confirmed commanded timing with timing light, it is dead on. I got it to start and idle decently. Worked a little on the maps and now I have it at the point where it starts, idle and rev up. If I start it and let it idle I get 1 timing error (which is from cranking) and then I see Sync Error flickering 1-0-1-0 which is also normal since I am using just one cam teeth. Idle is decent but a little rough but no timing errors. Now, if I do light throttle tip in, just to rev up fewer than 3k rpm I get no timing errors, but, as soon as I try to rev up past 3k, it will rev up (at this point I wouldn’t let it past 4k-5k rpm) a little rough but it will rev and I get timing errors (like 7 timing errors on the same rev). So, I think a noise problem, but I don’t have a scope on hand. Starter out with http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=29935.0

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10kohm at the crank signal (VR mag) and it didn’t make any difference. Put a 5kohm and the same. I’m 95% sure of crank sensor polarity, so there is still a little chance that It need to be inverted. Before I go for a 2kohm resistor I will do a sanity check on power lines and grounds. Will test falling edge for the cam signal (right now it is rising edge) to see if I get any difference and will invert the crank signal wires if necessary for testing. I’m using the 96’ harness so cam/crank signals are shielded. Cam/crank signals wires are running separated from the rest of the harness and far from fans, coils, HT leads, etc. Coil driver ground is connected to engine block. Based on this, what would you recommend? Which parameters would you recommend me to log in order to help diagnose? Thank you. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on March 07, 2013, 08:26:32 AM For the pull down resistors, should I put it on the ems side or sensor side of harness? Is there any difference, or any recommendation? Also, what would be the best way of wiring it, solder it to the wire or just strand it? Thank you for the help. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: NS on March 08, 2013, 02:59:32 PM Glad to hear you're up and running. That's a big achievement. You can also try adding in a .01uF capacitor in parallel to your pull down resistor. This RC configuration effectively creates a low pass filter where high frequnecy noise is drained to ground and only the real lower frequency signal is allowed to pass through. As far as the pull down resistor goes, I've seen resistance values as low as 750ohm so it's very possible that you have a very strong signal that needs to be clamped down. Pulling the signal amplitude down will obviously also reduce the amplitude of any noise signals. If after adding in a cap and going with a stronger pull down you don't see a significant improvement, there's one other thing we can try but I'd do those things first. Another possibility is your MX Time option. Check to see if your MX Sync Count is changing when you start getting timing errors. You can use the internal logging setup from this thread: http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php/topic,29498.0.html Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on March 11, 2013, 03:01:22 PM So it looks like it was a tuning issue from the beginning when I added the 10kohm. When I added the 5kohm it was the same but when I added the 2kohm http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=29935.0

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it got worse. So I removed the resistor, tuned the fuel map a little more an now it free rev hard and crisp with no timing errors, I guess the signal is weak. The idle is still rough but it is because of the mixture, I’m not able to bring it any leaner than 12.5:1 (at 1.3ms) it seems that Siemens 60# injectors doesn’t like anything below 1.4ms, they get very inconsistent. I will try lowering the pressure but any recommendation other that changing the injectors? Something that I found curious was the wizard setup for the MSD blaster SS coils. I noticed that the coil driver got fairly hot to the touch (on idle) and I decided to take a look to the dwell settings and I found It was applying around 6ms of dwell time which I think is a lot of dwell for those coils. The Dwell vs RPM was 200% all the way. So I got it down to 100% and now I get about 3ms with no apparent bad effect (weak spark) and the coil driver doesn’t get that hot, it is just warm. Any advice on this, is there any explanation for those 6ms of dwell on the wizard? I’m working on the drivetrain now, soon will take it for a ride and overall tuning then to the rollers :wink: Thank you for all the support. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on March 12, 2013, 10:47:05 PM After a lot of idle tuning/troubleshooting I came to the conclusion that the EMS will NOT consistently pulse these injectors (siemens 630cc) under 1.5ms, the lower I can pulse without the engine getting erratic and or stalling is 1.55-1.6ms which gets me to a 12.0 - 12.5:1 AFR at idle (38psi rail pressure). Is this normal not to be able to pulse anything less that 1.5ms with this EMS/injector combination? Am I missing something? Anyone else using this injectors? Help please. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: NS on March 13, 2013, 01:11:29 PM Looks like the Blaster SS coil wizard was a straight copy and paste from the Series 1 but the Series 1 used a Coil Dwell Factor option that reduced the net dwell time down and the Series 2/EMS-4 doesn't have this option. Good catch recognizing this. I can't imagine those coils (or many other inductive coils) needing more than 3ms of dwell. I think you're pointing the blame about your fueling control problems on the wrong suspect. The EMS doesn't know what injectors are connected to it or how they behave. All the EMS does is turn it's injector driver on and off for however long you tell it to. The problem is the injector. You can usually breakdown an injectors flow vs pulsewidth behavior into two parts: the linear higher pulsewidth area and the non-linear lower pulsewidth area. The break between these two areas is usually indicated by the "knee" or kink in the curve http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=29935.0

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where injector flow becomes unpredicable, inconsistent and non-linear. Doing a quick Google search for Siemens Deka 630 got me some results that suggest this injector has a fairly bad "knee" that occurs at higher than normal pulsewidths. It seems that you may have selected an injector that doesn't work well at lower pulsewidths. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on March 13, 2013, 02:28:59 PM Q uote from : NS on March 13, 2013, 01:11:29 PM Look s lik e the Blaste r SS coil wizard was a straight copy and paste from the Se rie s 1 but the Se rie s 1 use d a C oil Dwe ll Factor option that re duce d the ne t dwe ll tim e down and the Se rie s 2/EMS-4 doe sn't have this option. Good catch re cognizing this. I can't im agine those coils (or m any othe r inductive coils) ne e ding m ore than 3m s of dwe ll. I think you're pointing the blam e about your fue ling control proble m s on the wrong suspe ct. The EMS doe sn't k now what inje ctors are conne cte d to it or how the y be have . All the EMS doe s is turn it's inje ctor drive r on and off for howe ve r long you te ll it to. The proble m is the inje ctor. You can usually bre ak down an inje ctors flow vs pulse width be havior into two parts: the line ar highe r pulse width are a and the non-line ar lowe r pulse width are a. The bre ak be twe e n the se two are as is usually indicate d by the "k ne e " or k ink in the curve whe re inje ctor flow be com e s unpre dicable , inconsiste nt and non-line ar. Doing a quick Google se arch for Sie m e ns De k a 630 got m e som e re sults that sugge st this inje ctor has a fairly bad "k ne e " that occurs at highe r than norm al pulse widths. It se e m s that you m ay have se le cte d an inje ctor that doe sn't work we ll at lowe r pulse widths.

I have been doing some search too and found this; http://siemensdeka.com/specsheets/FI114961.jpg so you are spot on! Obviously the EMS/injector combination is not the problem, the problem is the injectors themselves. There is no linearity as you approach to 1.5ms and below which explain the behavior that I am experiencing. I was surprised since this is a very common injector on the vw 1.8t community (this is why I decided to buy them) and that is why I was inclined to think about the EMS not liking this injectors, but did some research and there are a lot of people complaining about the same rich/rough idle problem so. NS, thanks for your support. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on March 21, 2013, 05:11:19 PM I will be changing the injectors to genesis 2 500cc which are not on the wizard. Of course maps will require changes but, setup wise, other than Battery Volts offset primary and injector size primary, do I have to change anything else? Thank you. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: NS on March 21, 2013, 07:12:02 PM No, that's it. Depending on how "tuned" your fuel map is you can use the Change Injector Flow/Pressure wizard to rescale your fuel map for the smaller injectors. You could also probably just do a 15% increase everywhere and be close. I'm sure USRT will have the latecy specs for you to put into the offset table. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=29935.0

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Post by: ing.programing on March 22, 2013, 03:00:39 PM Excellent! Thank you. And yes, USRT have that information available, those guys are great! :-) Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on May 06, 2013, 10:17:25 AM So I got the injectors(500cc GenII) in @ 45psi base press, used the inj/press wizard for the overall changes, updated the Batt Offset values with the ones provided and it fired up on the first attempt. I. Adjusted idle and Batt Offset values a bit and it is idling really nice and smooth (short video attached). Something I also noticed was that the engine liked some injection phasing advance with these injectors, I guess it speaks atomization. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on May 06, 2013, 11:04:12 AM I will soon post a wrap-up of this tread with all the information for this specific VW mk4 2.0l engine setup including my specific Battery Voltage Compensation values for this injectors as well as tacho, VSS, and OEM sensors setup with the EMS4. So far the car is working great and I can’t be any happier with this EMS, dyno soon! Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on May 09, 2013, 01:38:35 PM So, just to wrap up this setup for those VW guys interested on the EMS4: This was on an early mk4 vw which means that the throttle is drive by cable and the cluster (tacho) is not CAN bus. Battery relocated to the trunk. Crank: - Start out with the 60-2 CRK VR 1 CAM VR 4 CYL COP SEQ base cal provided by AEM wizard – In the advanced pickup tab, turn Cam Mag OFF and Cam hall/rising edge ON. - Crank Mag – Falling edge ON. - Crank sensor polarity needs to be inverted – I have the rounded grey plug on the crank sensor (P/N 06A906433C). Sensor polarity is pin1 = pos, pin2 = neg, pin1 = sensor shield. You want to connect Pin 1 to white, Pin 2 to green and Pin 3 to shield. Refer to post #8. Cam: - Cam Sensor is a Hall sensor (P/N 0 232 101 031) so there is only one way to connect it. Pin1 = +, Pin2 = signal, Pin3 = -. - Cam Sensor wheel needs to be modified, at least tooth #3 needs to be removed, refer to post #25 and previous. - Ignition needs to be synced (using timing light while cranking and then confirm at idle), in my case I ended with an Ignition Sync Value of ###, confirmed at 5K rpm and there is no drift. Tacho: http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=29935.0

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- GPIO connected to pin ### on cluster green plug - It needs a pull-up resistor to 5v (vcc), a 5kohm did the trick for me. - It wants to see 4 short pulses per cycle (two evenly separated spikes on the tacho table). TPS: - I’m using an OEM obd1 tps, 3 wire straight forward installation/calibration. Used the wizard but had to adjust the values manually to avoid tps errors. Coolant Temp: - I have a mechanical Coolant temp gauge so it was easy to create the temp/voltage table for the OEM sensor, at least for my operational range (it doesn’t get anything colder than 60deg here in PR), the rest I just extrapolated linearly. VSS: -

I just tapped on the speedometer signal wire on cluster green plug pin###. I ended up with a calibration value of 156 and it is spot on!

O2: - Using AEM WBFS Device, installed as per instructions, used the wizard which got it very close (EMS4 was offset by about 0.3 AFR compared to gauge displayed value). - In my case I selected the entire O2 sensor calibration table and hit + a couple of times and perfect! Now the values shown on the gauge match exactly with ECU displayed values. Injectors: -

Genesis II 500cc Batery Voltage Offset Values:

Volts/ms: 6/2.55, 7/2.55, 8/2.12, 9/1.63, 10/1.27, 11/1.07, 12/0.93, 13/078, 14/0.62, 15/0.53, 16/0.44 Ignition: - I’m using AEM 4 channel coil driver with 4 MSD Blaster Coils - MSD Blaster Coils are on the wizard but you want to go to the Dwell table and make it a flat line at 3.0ms. Wizard Dwell setting for these coils is wrong and could overheat your driver/coils. I will be updating this post with the cluster pin #s and Ign Sync Value as well as the Idle Valve Setup (valve is on its way), I will be using a Bosch 2-wire PWM valve P/N: 0280140516, if someone have any setup info on this kind of valve I would really appreciate your input. I will also upload a base cal to make it even easier for the VW guys. Cheers! 8-) Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=29935.0

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Post by: NS on May 09, 2013, 01:53:39 PM Good info. Thanks for following up. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: d962r on May 28, 2013, 08:30:28 PM small thread jack... Sorry so has anyone ever set up the Dwell for the stock smart coils (cop) from the passat/jetta? I have mine set up on a 4agte and I'm getting a massive dip in the power curve starting @ 4k where it tank out 50HP and then slowly brings it back as the RPM com back up to around 5.5k Thanks guys Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on May 31, 2013, 03:22:10 PM I am not sure but a part number for the coils would be a good starting point in order to get some help. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: d962r on June 02, 2013, 11:04:07 AM 06B905115R-1 2005 passat also found on new bug and some others. trying to figure out why I have a dip (20ft lbs & 40whp) in my dyno chart frome 3900 rpm to 4900 rpm. This is happening both under boost as well as N/A. I have checked the cam timing and its spot on. Fuel trim as well as spark are on par. Thought it could be the porting but that would only account N/A and not with 9psi boost. Any help or suggestions would be great. Title: Re: VW mk4 2.0L COP Sequential Setup Post by: ing.programing on June 03, 2013, 11:03:51 AM I would not run anything higher than 3ms. I sent you an email with some reference information. Good luck. Powe re d by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Sim ple Machine s

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